22 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

This is no longer true. Newer weapons have their own surge chart, specifically the mines laid by the rebel and imperial special forces.

18 hours ago, Qwrety77 said:

That's because it's not the unit itself doing the attack. The saboteur is just triggering it. The charges is exploding, making a totally separate attack.

Adding to this discussion, with the way that Detonate works, there is the possibility of having multiple types of units (calling it an engineer unit for sake of this discussion) that can detonate the same set of charges. So if the surge conversions are different between the saboteur and the engineer unit, now you have to work out which unit is activating each charge, rather than just making sure you have enough Detonates for the number of charges you want to resolve. In all other respects the charge attack is considered separately from the card of the Detonating unit, as keywords don't apply, and LoS is from the marker. Grenades allow for additional non-grenade dice in the dice pool, allowing for grenades to be in a pool with Blast, Pierce, Sharpshooter, etc depending on the other weapons in the pool and the unit making the attack. If the grenade has a different surge value, then it has to be in a separate pool and would lose out on other weapon keywords.

I agree that the surges are more to represent the capabilities of the unit, not the weapons, much like Sharpshooter or Precise. The even weirder, semi-related situation that will come up is that wounds, defenses, and surge conversions for a unit apply to any of the specialists attached in the extra trooper upgrade slot. So, an Imperial officer by themselves has a white defense die with defensive surge, but imbedded in a Stormtrooper squad gets a red defense without defensive surge. Why? Because it's far quicker to resolve than having to figure out which hits are being taken against the officer vs a standard trooper in the squad.

23 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

This is no longer true. Newer weapons have their own surge chart, specifically the mines laid by the rebel and imperial special forces.

That's arguable, because with the charges, the attack is tecnically done by the charge and not by the unit. You even measure range and line of sight from the charge, the unit may be on the other end of the table and doesn't matter. Also is a different kind of attack as it is an area weapon, so I wouldn't compare them to grenades.

I can kind of see your point, but it’s not right.

With this logic stormtroopers should also pay more for the upgrade because they have precise.

There’s no issue with what the cost of grenades are. These costs are already included in the base unit being more expensive.

19 minutes ago, lukecook said:

I can kind of see your point, but it’s not right.

With this logic stormtroopers should also pay more for the upgrade because they have precise.

There’s no issue with what the cost of grenades are. These costs are already included in the base unit being more expensive.

The cost of unit keywords, defensive dice, surge conversions, courage values, default weapons, wounds, etc are already built into the basic cost of the unit. You can't take the grenades in a vacuum, you have to consider the points of the unit in the price. So, to include impact grenades in an army costs the imperial player 4 more points than it does the Rebel player (at minimum). Should the grenades cost more on the stormtroopers because they have a red defense and are therefore more likely to survive to get into range 1?

1 minute ago, Caimheul1313 said:

The cost of unit keywords, defensive dice, surge conversions, courage values, default weapons, wounds, etc are already built into the basic cost of the unit. You can't take the grenades in a vacuum, you have to consider the points of the unit in the price. So, to include impact grenades in an army costs the imperial player 4 more points than it does the Rebel player (at minimum). Should the grenades cost more on the stormtroopers because they have a red defense and are therefore more likely to survive to get into range 1?

I’m saying that grenades should cost 5 points for everyone. What are you saying? Lol it’s hard to understand bc I can’t tell if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me.

2 minutes ago, lukecook said:

I’m saying that grenades should cost 5 points for everyone. What are you saying? Lol it’s hard to understand bc I can’t tell if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me.

Ah, minor confusion. I'm in the camp of 5 points, and don't errata to put surge value on the weapon.