Hi all,

I loved Dash in 1.0 but I rarely flew him as I knew he was a bit OP and I didn't want to drown in the tears of my opponents.

For 2.0 I had high hopes as there should be a more balanced dash that I can play regularly without guilt.

I tried him out over the weekend but I am severely unimpressed with his performance!

• He seems incredibly cost prohibitive.
• You really have to use Bistan to get the best value you can
• If you use Bistan then you are tied to the focus action every turn
• The turret arc does not match up well with dash as it severely limits your flexibility with maneuvers
• Range 1 sucks, range 3 sucks (opponents get extra green) so you are forced to try and stay in range 2. Not great for a chunky ship that is going to get focused down quickly.

Dash is no longer as manoeuvrable, he has no boost and no linked actions so gone are the days when you could dance around the battlefield. His movements are static and predictable (if you want a shot).

The new Dash is a very different ship and honestly I don't think he is viable at the moment.

Thoughts?

His playstyle is fundamentally altered, but the chassis and his ability are still super powerful. I think he is a touch overcosted, and will still be 3/4 of your list however you build him.

Add to that the new outrider title, and he is a 4 dice gun that negates rocks ... he can clear up to 2 stress a turn with relative ease by flying over a rock (a green move, over a rock)

When I've flown him, I've never had to spin the turret either ... those big large base arcs cover a lot of ground.

Try this Dash build ... i7 double tap for fun and games.

Dash Rendar (100)
Trick Shot (1)
Han Solo (12)
Perceptive Copilot (10)
Outrider (14)

Roark Garnet (38)
Squad Leader (4)
Tactical Officer (2)
Engine Upgrade (3)
Moldy Crow (12)

Total: 196

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I think you will find what ever was powerful/meta at the end of 1.0 will be up on points in 2.0. It will need some time to settle, I think Scum Fenn is overcosted at 68 points, but I might be alone.

I played one of the 2.0 play testers a few times years ago and we both had a mutual love for Dash back then. Got my teeth kicked in a few times. So when 2.0 dropped I tried to see what one of his old builds looked like with the new system to see if some of his old tricks still fit. Let's see if this app works well yet...

HWK-290 Light Freighter - •Jan Ors - 60
•Jan Ors - Espionage Expert (42)
Squad Leader (4)
Tactical Officer (2)
Moldy Crow (12)

YT-2400 Light Freighter - •Dash Rendar - 137
•Dash Rendar - Hotshot Mercenary (100)
Trick Shot (1)
Saw Gerrera (8)
Rigged Cargo Chute (4)
Outrider (14)
Agile Gunner (10)

Total: 197/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Seems that Dash really needs the HKW to back him up and give him focus tokens. I will try one of the builds above and report back, but im not optimistic.

1 hour ago, ForceSensitive said:

I played one of the 2.0 play testers a few times years ago and we both had a mutual love for Dash back then. Got my teeth kicked in a few times. So when 2.0 dropped I tried to see what one of his old builds looked like with the new system to see if some of his old tricks still fit. Let's see if this app works well yet...

HWK-290 Light Freighter - •Jan Ors - 60
•Jan Ors - Espionage Expert (42)
Squad Leader (4)
Tactical Officer (2)
Moldy Crow (12)

YT-2400 Light Freighter - •Dash Rendar - 137
•Dash Rendar - Hotshot Mercenary (100)
Trick Shot (1)
Saw Gerrera (8)
Rigged Cargo Chute (4)
Outrider (14)
Agile Gunner (10)

Total: 197/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Dash is too fragile to equip Saw. If anything, with Agile Gunner I would slap on Seasoned Navigator. It makes Dash extra tricky.

I think with Dash, you are paying a lot of money for one big gun, so you need to double down on that big gun. In my build, it is Roark giving him an i7 attack, followed by Han Solo giving him another i7 shot from that same big gun. Two focus and either a TL, reposition, or in extreme cases an arc rotation per turn leveraging the co-ordinate.

Dash needs action economy from somewhere, but is too expensive to fit a co-ordinate shuttle with a decent 3rd ship, hence my approach of pushing the points into an independently strong HWK

You now have to actually fly well with him... No more boost, barrel roll arc dodging crap.

To keep your turret facing correctly, and still gets so mods you have to fly well that's the big difference from first edition.

Still a 4 damage monster but no longer the definition of easy mode to fly.

29 minutes ago, Icelom said:

You now have to actually fly well with him... No more boost, barrel roll arc dodging crap.

To keep your turret facing correctly, and still gets so mods you have to fly well that's the big difference from first edition.

Still a 4 damage monster but no longer the definition of easy mode to fly.

He never was, and he isn't now, stop whinging. You sound like PGS.

I have a friend who is 9-0 in 2.0 play with Dash.

He runs Dash with Perceptive Copilot and Bistan, and has a u-wing to coordiante and get in the way of other ships. I think he coordinates the double focus, which opens up Dash to take a TL, BR, etc.

Dash seem very cool but also tricky to build. I was thinking that he could really use the help of both AP5 for cheap coordinate, and rex for defence/target priority messing.

Dash Rendar — YT-2400 100
Trick Shot 1
Cluster Missiles 5
Seasoned Navigator 5
Outrider 14
Rigged Cargo Chute 4
Ship Total: 129

AP-5 — Sheathipede-Class Shuttle 30
Informant 5
Ship Total: 35

Captain Rex — TIE Fighter 32
Ship Total: 32

The problem is he needs a coordinate ship to make those 4 attack dice work reliably, but that puts Dash on a leash and makes it easier to catch him and he just melts under concentrated fire, which is not good when your ship costs 130+ points. Dash needs a serious points reduction to compete with the nonsense the Imperials are putting on the table, at least 10 points, or needs a reliable way to give himself a free focus or lock. I would gladly take scum Han Solo gunner for the same amount of points as Bistan.

I'm honestly a little disappointed, as I thought he had been priced into oblivion. As long as he actually requires thought to fly, though, I suppose it's alright.

20 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Dash needs a serious points reduction to compete with the nonsense the Imperials are putting on the table, at least 10 points...

Several people here report good success with him, so why does he need to be cheaper? If the Imperial lists are so much better, maybe they need to be more expensive, instead.

22 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

...or needs a reliable way to give himself a free focus or lock.

They would need to be very careful about doing anything like this. Personally, I think free tokens should be few and far between.

Dash goes up a tiny four points, two percent of your list, and all of a sudden he is unplayable?

14 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Dash goes up a tiny four points, two percent of your list, and all of a sudden he is unplayable?

Huh? Did they already change Dash's points in 2.0? If you're comparing him to 1.0 Dash, you're comparing apples to oranges. They are completely different ships with completely different abilities.

Quote

They would need to be very careful about doing anything like this. Personally, I think free tokens should be few and far between.

I agree, but apparently a free focus action at I7 and even if you bump or go over a rock is only worth 4 points in Scum faction.

13 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Dash goes up a tiny four points, two percent of your list, and all of a sudden he is unplayable?

No, it's that he lost so much of what was good: Rey is gone, Lone Wolf was nerfed, Barrel Rolls are red, he has to burn actions rotating his arc, AND he costs more.

Meanwhile Imps got some great tools and improvements, and Boba is tearing things up for scum.

1 minute ago, Tvboy said:

Huh? Did they already change Dash's points in 2.0? If you're comparing him to 1.0 Dash, you're comparing apples to oranges. They are completely different ships.

...once you start adding to him (and turning him into Super Dash, I guess). Dash with just the title, an HLC and maybe a crew was perfectly playable in 1.0, and we still have that Dash, more or less. It's the boosting, double-modded Dash that's gone.

7 minutes ago, Okapi said:

...once you start adding to him (and turning him into Super Dash, I guess). Dash with just the title, an HLC and maybe a crew was perfectly playable in 1.0, and we still have that Dash, more or less. It's the boosting, double-modded Dash that's gone.

If "playable" means legal, then yes I guess, but nobody was winning games at tournaments with a naked HLC Dash.

The non-boosting Dash did have double mods, he had Lone Wolf and Rey crew, which meant he could Barrel Roll and still have focus and a re-roll for both offense and defense. He also had twice the area coverage with his arcs and didn't have to spend actions moving them, and he could shed a Lock at the start of combat while increasing his agility, and he denied enemy range bonuses at range 3.

I'm not saying he should have retained all this going into 2.0, just that comparing them is apples to oranges. So Dash (as a platform) has way less abilities than he did in 1.0, yet he got more expensive than he was in 1.0, and everything else in the game got stronger, and high PS aces retained their repositioning abilities from 1.0 that were the classic Dash counters.

11 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

I agree, but apparently a free focus action at I7 and even if you bump or go over a rock is only worth 4 points in Scum faction.

Don't get me started on Scum.

6 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Don't get me started on Scum.

Sadly, we don't get to fly our ships in a vacuum and they need to be compared to what is actually out there in the wild. Dash is a joke at 100 pts compared to Boba at 80 and even Whisper, who is effectively just as immune to rocks but has insane action economy at a bargain points cost.

I really hope Scum Han gunner goes up to 14 points, because like I said, I would gladly replace Bistan with that card for the same points cost.

Trust me, the game will be far more enjoyable with a crappy dash than an exceptionally viable one

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Trust me, the game will be far more enjoyable with a crappy dash than an exceptionally viable one

For you, maybe. Some of us like flying our favorite ships without gimping our chances at winning.

12 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Sadly, we don't get to fly our ships in a vacuum and they need to be compared to what is actually out there in the wild. Dash is a joke at 100 pts compared to Boba at 80 and even Whisper, who is effectively just as immune to rocks but has insane action economy at a bargain points cost.

I really hope Scum Han gunner goes up to 14 points, because like I said, I would gladly replace Bistan with that card for the same points cost.

The reason I don't like using Scum for comparison isn't that I think they're OP or too cheap. Rather, I find too many of their abilities to run counter to the essence of Second Edition in ways that can't be solved by simply changing numbers in the app.

But that's a discussion for another topic.

2 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

For you, maybe. Some of us like flying our favorite ships without gimping our chances at winning.

Some of us don't like blatantly ignoring one of the most fundamental aspects of the game

Potato-poe tah toe

There are other ships, you'll be fine

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

Some of us don't like blatantly ignoring one of the most fundamental aspects of the game

Potato-poe tah toe

Then don't equip Collision Detectors, Advanced SLAM, or fly any ships with linked actions.