Anyone fly the Phantom successfully in 2.0? I used to fly Phantoms in 1.0 pre-nerf, not so much post-nerf, but flying it again in 2.0 just feels very different. I never flew with the Sygium Particla Accelerator in 1.0 but now it's built in on 2.0 Phantoms. I always used the Advanced Cloaking Device so the Phantoms in 2.0 felt very vulnerable with just 2 evade dice with the "stealth" function just basically allowing me to block or end up in a suprise position. However, with decloacking giving an evade action as opposed to a token, I'm then limited to just focus or barrel rolling for my action.... would've been nice if it gave an evade token instead then I can double-evade.

Another painful change is the loss of 1 attack dice. I felt it was worth it flying the Phantoms as glass cannons with good maneuver options but with -1 attack dice in exchange for +1 hull point, I don't quite feel the punch of the Phantoms anymore.

I also used to fly with either Gunner/Rebel Captive/Recon Specialist/Weapons Engineer on the Phantom plus a Fire Control System in order to modify attack dice. In 2.0, Director Krennic or Percpetive Copilot seem to be the only sensible options. Vader seems cool but him and the Inquisitor seems like they're just going to make whichever ship they're on as primary targets and on a Phantom with 2 defense dice, they don't last very long.

I'm hoping a 2.0 release of the Phantom will have an Advanced Cloaking Device or some cool upgrade to make the Phantom viable, but in 2.0, it seems quite "meh". Having said that, I've only played with the named pilots. I've read that people have had great results with 4x Sigmas with Juke so would love to see how that works.

...huh?

The phantom is easily one of the best imperial and in general ships of second edition

easily

Just get out of the first edition mindset. all you need is JUKE

No need to overload them

I think Phantoms still seem quite fun, though I've only gotten the chance to play one once in 2.0, and that was against the token-stealing HWK pilot who ensured that I never had an Evade token, so I didn't really get to see its full potential.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

...huh?

The phantom is easily one of the best imperial and in general ships of second edition

easily

Just get out of the first edition mindset. all you need is JUKE

No need to overload them

Would love if you'd expound on that. HOW should it be flown in 2.0? I've flown with Juke as well but can't really see the point as the attacker modifies defense dice first so if my target has a focus token, that's basically the counter for Juke. Not saying it's useless as I've had successful kills thanks to Juke but I was wondering if Outmaneuver would be better at +2 points....

7 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I think Phantoms still seem quite fun, though I've only gotten the chance to play one once in 2.0, and that was against the token-stealing HWK pilot who ensured that I never had an Evade token, so I didn't really get to see its full potential.

Yep! That's what made me want Stygium to have given a token rather than as an action. Also pointless to get an evade token for decloaking but needing another one to cloak. Maybe that's me coming from 1.0 and Advanced Cloaking Device but why defend with 2 green dice when you can have 4?

3 minutes ago, Games'n'Geeks said:

Would love if you'd expound on that. HOW should it be flown in 2.0? I've flown with Juke as well but can't really see the point as the attacker modifies defense dice first so if my target has a focus token, that's basically the counter for Juke. Not saying it's useless as I've had successful kills thanks to Juke but I was wondering if Outmaneuver would be better at +2 points....

Juke is easier to trigger

If juke forces spending of token, it means they can't mod attack

If you have multiple juke, they'll get through

If the opponent does anything that ISNT a focus (including actions or red moves or obstacles or overlapping other ships) they get juked

Phantoms are incredible.

Ship Ability = Comm Relay

Decloak = Avoid Scary Things

5 HP = Semi-Durable, but will die to focus ? like everything besides Luke, Norra, Boba, Re-enforced Stuff, Defenders, etc.

3 Red = Great In 2.0 ( 3 is the new 4 )

Dial = Amazing With 1 Banks and 3-4ks

Talent = Juke but also good empty

System = Almost Always Empty for the Bid but also good with Coll Det or Advanced Sensors

Crew = Absurd # of options. Kallus, Vader, 000, Sloane, Quiz, Seventh, Blank for the Bid as default.

Tip = Save That Evade Token to Decloak. Taking One Damage now to keep the decloak ? going is often correct. Practice, it takes some careful planning to move Whisper well turn to turn to turn an entire game without moving into a trap of your own creation or your opponents. Advanced Sensors and Coll Detector are good training wheels as you learn, later dropped for a bid.

Overall = I have included a Phantom in all but 1 Imperial list I have used so far and without a doubt it has been the best ship available to me for its reasonable cost, requires a small bit of thought and preplanning, flexible for alot of situations, and incredibly fun.

X-Wings = Jelly

1 minute ago, Games'n'Geeks said:

Yep! That's what made me want Stygium to have given a token rather than as an action. Also pointless to get an evade token for decloaking but needing another one to cloak. Maybe that's me coming from 1.0 and Advanced Cloaking Device but why defend with 2 green dice when you can have 4?

Because you can't attack while cloaked?

I have to disagree with the sentiment of giving a token instead of an action. One of 2.0's selling points was that it would help reign in free actions and tokens. If anything, it should be the other way around, with MORE pilot abilities requiring actions instead of being freebies.

7 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Juke is easier to trigger

If juke forces spending of token, it means they can't mod attack

If you have multiple juke, they'll get through

If the opponent does anything that ISNT a focus (including actions or red moves or obstacles or overlapping other ships) they get juked

Not saying Juke is confusing, what I'm saying is Juke is only useful if the opponent hasn't focused or if attacking one ship with multiple Phantoms with Juke. Most opponents will focus to counter Juke and I can't always target the same ship twice.... I usually fly three-ship builds. Juke is probably awesome on the 4-ship Sigma build.

Compared with 1.0 however.... ability to get target locks and thus modify your attack rolls, gunner for two attacks, etc. We now have Fire-Control System in 2.0 but no way to use it on Phantoms outside of Krennic.

17 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Phantoms are incredible.

Ship Ability = Comm Relay

Decloak = Avoid Scary Things

5 HP = Semi-Durable, but will die to focus ? like everything besides Luke, Norra, Boba, Re-enforced Stuff, Defenders, etc.

3 Red = Great In 2.0 ( 3 is the new 4 )

Dial = Amazing With 1 Banks and 3-4ks

Talent = Juke but also good empty

System = Almost Always Empty for the Bid but also good with Coll Det or Advanced Sensors

Crew = Absurd # of options. Kallus, Vader, 000, Sloane, Quiz, Seventh, Blank for the Bid as default.

Tip = Save That Evade Token to Decloak. Taking One Damage now to keep the decloak ? going is often correct. Practice, it takes some careful planning to move Whisper well turn to turn to turn an entire game without moving into a trap of your own creation or your opponents. Advanced Sensors and Coll Detector are good training wheels as you learn, later dropped for a bid.

X-Wings = Jelly

Thanks for that! I've flown Phantoms before so I'd like to think I know how to fly them but maybe I'm doing something wrong... but still don't see the point of having to save the evade. Would've loved to be able to have two evades. The Phantom didn't like getting shot at at 1.0, it's even more so in 2.0, I guess!

What do you mean by Comm Relay? I can't find it anywhere. Also don't know what you mean by Avoid Scary Things. 3 attack dice may be the new 4 attack, but it's now also crippled by the lack of ability to modify those attack dice.

Aside from the 4x Sigma with Juke, what's a good Phantom setup? I agree that there are an absurd number of crew options, but that holds true for any of the ships that has a crew slot, so..... don't know how that's really a thing?

5 minutes ago, Games'n'Geeks said:

... but still don't see the point of having to save the evade.

I think the idea is that you now have to make a choice to use the Evade when defending or save it. Second Edition is supposed to involve more choosing between options and less ships playing themselves once you put them down.

27 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Because you can't attack while cloaked?

I have to disagree with the sentiment of giving a token instead of an action. One of 2.0's selling points was that it would help reign in free actions and tokens. If anything, it should be the other way around, with MORE pilot abilities requiring actions instead of being freebies.

I guess I was spoiled by Advanced Cloaking Device... but to lose 2 evade to shoot? Seems expensive to me. Probably should take Perceptive Copilot to have two focus, that way I can save the evade to re-cloak and use one focus on the attack and one on the defense, but even so, at this rate, the cloaking is really only for repositioning options and doesn't do anything for defensive capabilities.

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

I think the idea is that you now have to make a choice to use the Evade when defending or save it. Second Edition is supposed to involve more choosing between options and less ships playing themselves once you put them down.

Yeah, had to make that choice a few times already!

7 minutes ago, Games'n'Geeks said:

I guess I was spoiled by Advanced Cloaking Device... but to lose 2 evade to shoot? Seems expensive to me. Probably should take Perceptive Copilot to have two focus, that way I can save the evade to re-cloak and use one focus on the attack and one on the defense, but even so, at this rate, the cloaking is really only for repositioning options and doesn't do anything for defensive capabilities.

...unless you choose not to decloak, or you cloak as an action.

Also, just realized that the free Evade action is susceptible to stress, so watch out for that.

They lost a LOT, but they also lost a TONNE of points, so... they're amazing.

The fact that Phantoms get a perma-evade to power Juke, without spending their normal action, is really really valuable in 2e. Juke Phantoms & Defenders are top tier menaces. Other talents are certainly viable, but none of them are nearly as efficient , because Juke works practically every time you get a shot, for free . Four points in list building gets you an actionless passive ability that forces your opponent to spend their precious action on defense, or take added damage, while your own actions remain wide open. Your opponent's viable choices are narrowed, and they become inflexible where you remain flexible.

Phantoms are not invincible or superpowered. They're certainly not the 1e version, when their identity was "By Far the Strongest Ship on the Board [If They Shoot First]." Like everything else in 2e, you still have to fly well and not force them to play outside their comfort zone (i.e. hyper-mobile, hyper-efficient flanker demon), and there are still some very unfavorable matchups (things that stack focus tokens or built-in dice mods such as Force users, etc) that you'll have to play around. But all told Phantoms are in a great place.

I love the design of Phantoms in 2.0. They are loaded with meaningful choices. You can have your 2 extra defense dice but that means choosing not to attack. OP I think you are still hung up on the 1.0 mentality of wanting everything. I understand as it took me a while to fully understand the new reality of the game. In 2.0 Ships are only going to be as good as your choices. If you play to their strengths than just about anything can be good but if you just YOLO in to a group hoping to rely on mods most ships are going to die quickly.

26 minutes ago, Games'n'Geeks said:

I guess I was spoiled by Advanced Cloaking Device... but to lose 2 evade to shoot? Seems expensive to me. Probably should take Perceptive Copilot to have two focus, that way I can save the evade to re-cloak and use one focus on the attack and one on the defense, but even so, at this rate, the cloaking is really only for repositioning options and doesn't do anything for defensive capabilities.

and you just got it. That right there, cloaking for repositioning, is THE reason to take a phantom, and, IMO, why echo is better than whisper. I did a very succesfull store championship with a fully loaded out echo build : Echo, Juke, AdvSensor, Perceptive copilot, Stealth Device. And in 4 games she never died, only once did she lose half life. The trick is to force the rest of the engagement with the rest of the list, and make sure that echo is in a 1v1 situation, or just need 1 or 2 damage to trigger one. Then you point fortress and play safe while slinging 3 dice + juke + focus from unexpected angle.

Don't forget that decloak, getting an evade, recloaking is a really solid way to run away safely when you have no shots. You cover a lot of ground, have excellent defense, and still have the unpredictability of decloak.

I think we'll be having this discussion a lot as players who quit the game return to 2.0 though.

2 hours ago, Games'n'Geeks said:

I'm hoping a 2.0 release of the Phantom will have an Advanced Cloaking Device ...

If they bring back Advanced Cloaking Device, I just might quit X-wing. That card was the worst #$$%#$% thing in the game. The old Tie Phantom was the most rock/paper/scissor thing in the game. It was horrible. Game design at it's worst.

I have flown the new one and like it. I'm not spoiled on the broken crap of the 1st Ed, though. I have found that when I'm tied for init, I like to go first. It's less of an arc dodger and more of a flanker. Firing first and hitting means you get the free Evade. If you decloaked, that's 2. That's pretty defensive.

I have tried it with Krennic so far. I like getting the Target Lock. I go with FCS for the System. That gives you a die adjustment.

Juke is pretty good. There are often times when your opponent doesn't have a Focus on them. Maybe they TL'ed or they did a red move. Or someone else shot first and they had to use it. Either way, even making them spend the Focus means they don't have it later.

I'll admit I used the ship in a 5 ship list. I like having more than 3 ships as that just seems.....too dangerous. I went with a named Tie Adv (who gets the Optimized Prototype) and 3 Tie Fighters. The Ties get the shots and try their best to block. It means that when they don't have their Focus it really matters. The Tie Adv with Prototype and FCS means you get 3 attack dice and a hit turns into a crit. You get to re-roll one die. If you still get a Focus, use it to take out a shield or flip a crit.

I’ve flown Echo, whisper and soontir at my first 2.0 tournament and went 5-1. I practiced as much as I could and learned that I have to be super patient with these phantoms. I often kept flying around near my setup area, cloaking and decloaking.

Juke is one of the best talents in the game right now especially if you have multiple ships with it. All the pilots in my tournament list were equipped with it. Even if you can’t do damage, stripping focus tokens is gold in 2.0.

2 hours ago, Games'n'Geeks said:

Would love if you'd expound on that. HOW should it be flown in 2.0? I've flown with Juke as well but can't really see the point as the attacker modifies defense dice first so if my target has a focus token, that's basically the counter for Juke. Not saying it's useless as I've had successful kills thanks to Juke but I was wondering if Outmaneuver would be better at +2 points....

I've flown the 4 Sigma/Juke list a few times. Juke makes your opponent choose between keeping a focus for later in the turn or spend it now to stop damage. Either way is good for the Phantom player. If they spend the token then they don't have it to mod a shot later in the turn. If they keep it then a damage gets through to the target. I hadn't thought of using Outmaneuver on a Phantom because of Juke being so effective but I could see it working well with Phantoms due to the way the de-cloak works.

55 minutes ago, Ryuneke said:

I’ve flown Echo, whisper and soontir at my first 2.0 tournament and went 5-1. I practiced as much as I could and learned that I have to be super patient with these phantoms. I often kept flying around near my setup area, cloaking and decloaking.

You've piqued my curiosity with this list. Care to share it?

Possibly the best ship in Imperial faction.

R3/Stealth device are your friends. With all the evade generation, whisper can easily convert all dice to evade, and thus more greens are better. R3 also allows for some better sentry action of non stop hiking candy canes. Heck, even a vader phantom is fine with r3, as the force is a free calculate.

Also, you don't need collision detector for crazy decloak tricks, although it helps. For example, Decloak forward and k turn covers a lot of ground and ends up behind a juked target with an evade from stygium (which can recliak even weehen stressed!). Sure, no stygium evade next turn, but still slippery and annoying.

Also, without the buzzsaw option, 4 red dice would suck on a phantom. The inability to lock without filling the crew with Krennic would not haul the massive point cost of said 4th die. And that would preclude you from flying Juke Rexler in the same 3 ship squad due to a defender's cost. And that is a shame because of the damage output and survivability of the duo, especially when combined with epic filler such as Soontir or Redline..

37 minutes ago, T70 Driver said:

You've piqued my curiosity with this list. Care to share it?

Here you go:

TIE/ph Phantom - •“Whisper” - 68
•“Whisper” - Soft-Spoken Slayer (52)
Juke (4)
Seventh Sister (12)

TIE/in Interceptor - •Soontir Fel - 64
•Soontir Fel - Ace of Legend (52)
Juke (4)
Shield Upgrade (8)

TIE/ph Phantom - •“Echo” - 60
•“Echo” - Slippery Trickster (50)
Juke (4)
Agent Kallus (6)

Total: 192/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I really like 7th sister. Not only does she give a force charge, her ability saved me a couple of times because my opponent totally forgot about it.

Soontir gets ignored most of the time and stayed until the late game. In a 3 ship list I always put a shield upgrade on him which is amazing.

And yeah... triple juke is nuts.