I am not trying to start another big argument about how broken the Vindicare is, I am just looking for some more information on them. I read the description in Ascension and I have just been perplexed by it. I don't really get why they have Unnatural Strength and Toughness, I can understand the Agility and Speed(assassin-y stuff). I am relatively new to the 40k universe but I am just trying to understand more of it. I have used the Lexicanum to try and scrounge up info too. If some one could point me in the right direction that would be cool

Thanks Guys and Gals

Greetings,

According to the paragraphs in the side-bar of Codex: Daemonhunter:

Vindicare Assassins practise callous, unfeeling destruction which eliminates the target with contemptuous ease. They aim to bring inglorious death to the enemies of the Emperor with a sniper's bullet, and have elevated the skills of the marksman to an art form. To complement this, the Vindicare Temple emphasises stealth and evasion techniques as well as weapons training. One of the temple's maxims is that a clean kill can only be made from an excellent firing position, and Vindicare Assassins have been known to occupy a position overlooking their target for weeks before finally taking their shot.

The skills of the Vindicare temple are commonly used to slay those who are suspected of harbouring a daemonic entity before it emerges onto the material plane. Many false messiahs have fallen with a Vindicare bullet through their brains as they preached their credo. When such charismatic figures die at the hands of a faceless servant of the Emperor their followers soon become disillusioned and fearful. In this way many heresies have been syopped with a single shot, although there are inevitably occasions when the Vindicare is too late or the daemon possesses the carcass of its host, at which point the Ordo Malleus will move into action.

I won't quote what is stated in Codex: Witch Hunters because it is near enough the same as the above. Going from this, Unnatural Agility/Speed sound plausible through intense training in the art of stealth and evasion. If a Vindicare operative occupied a positions for weeks before taking the kill shot then possibly that would justify a severe training regime of endurance training (Unnatural Toughness).

Unnatural Strength?

...

I don't have the Ascension book in front of me, and the copy I preordered still hasn't arrived. Though coupled with the Art of Stealth & Evasion as well as intense weapons training as a marksman I would think Unnatural Perception would be more in line.

Rictus

Oops!

Looked on the Lexicanum and the first para is basically quoted under Vindicare assassins.

Looks as though quoted you something you've already seen...my apologies.

Rictus

One thing to remember is that the Vindicare, as an operative of the Officio Assassinorum, has always been represented in 40k as having physical strength and resilience equal or better than that of a Space Marine. The full details of how they obtain this has never been detailed - though some degree of cybernetic, biological, alchemical and/or surgical enhancement is likely - but that's just how they've always appeared.

As a result, a Vindicare and Eversor Assassins both get Unnatural Strength x2 and Unnatural Toughness x2, to put their strength and toughness bonuses in the same range as those of Space Marines.

Remember, the Vindicare isn't just a really, really good sniper. Like all Officio Assassins, they're living weapons, instruments of the Emperor's inescapable wrath, capable of killing in a wide variety of ways (you'll note that the Vindicare advance scheme contains Unarmed Ascendant Mastery; they're quite capable of shattering bone and pulverising flesh with their bare hands). Their chosen tool and their specialist skills lean towards marksmanship and precision killing, but that doesn't mean they lack the core abilities that all Officio Assassins share (it also means that it doesn't take too much work to remove the sniper skills and talents, replace them with a range of social infiltration and poisoner abilities, and create a Callidus Assassin Ascendant Career).

From a logistical perspective, it makes no sense to train your snipers to evade enemy fire because, if the job's done well, there shouldn't be any enemy fire to evade (and there should be no need to break any bone bare-handed). Actually, if you are planning this kind of operation, it makes no sense to send a single guy so this kind of über-training is just a waste of resources. But it's 40k, a universe of tech-improved battle monsters taking out entire armies without breaking a sweat and we love it that way.

All agents of the OA are highly trained killers, who excel at their job. They have their specialisations in the various temples, but every one knows a lot about the other ways of killing too. So unnatural strengh and toughness sound about right.

The Vindicare's specialisation is striking down important members of the opposition with a single bullet from far away, the proverbial 'divine judgement' that brings death from an unknown hand and robs the enemies of mankind of hope (and leadership). The Vindicare Temples Maxime is 'Location, location, location'. Never the less, getting away from the shooting and back home safely (aka running away/pulling back) is also important to keep the mystery. In 2nd Edition the Vindicare therefore had a special skill for fast pistol shooting to clear hordes of low goons to make a quick getaway.

I'll post more once i'm home and hold the old OA-Codex in my hands.

Well, much of the original fluff of any Officio Assassinorum Temple Assassins makes them so **** powerful as to be almost guaranteed to be overpowered. They were supposed to be hand-picked individuals with training starting from age of 10. And yes, they were supposed to be faster, stronger and tougher than average space marines ever are and for a very good reason too:

Space Marine is a mass-produced product. They start with a almost an adult (16 to 18 years old) boy and use genetic engineering and implants that can be made to fit almost any suitable recruit subject. And they use the same stuff for every recruit.

Assassin is a tailor-made tool. They start with 10 year old boy or girl and use custom-made, personally fitted genetic engineering and implants customized spacifically for each and every recruit. Thus they are extremely rare.

Even as Space Marines are horrendously expensive to create, train and gear the average cost of creating one Temple Assassin has to be dozens if not hundreds of times as much. You have to understand that GW vision of what Assassins are include them having actually better 40K statline than Space Marine Captain has. The actual Temple (Vindicare, Callidus, Culexus, Eversor, Venenum etc.) is an indication of what kind of tactics and equipment the assassin uses and what kind of missions they are most suited. The assassins in Vindicare temple, for example, are trained to be snipers, marksmen and sharpshooters. They use exitus rifles and pistols, surely, but they are probably trauined in every sort of ranged weapon and all sorts of ranged combat from up-close-and-personal pistol CQB to extreme-range sniping. And they would be fitted with genetics and implants to give them superhuman strenght and toughness because it makes them faster and more enduring and thus way more flexible in actual deployments.

After all, Vindicare assassin is not a military sniper. He is a one-man army. Military sniper will be dropped into his firing position with shuttle, supported by spotter, fires a single well-aimed round to kill the enemy commander or specialist and is then picked up by shuttle again. He needs to be perceptive, patient and have good hand-eye coordination. He doesn't need to do much else as he is essentially one-trick-pony. Temple assassin is a multi-purpose tool. He or she will be given a shuttle (he can pilot it himself), equipment and coordinates (often located on a planet, subsector or even sector fully under enemy control) and expected to do everything himself with no other help is nearby.

There was a great comic strip in Warhammer Monthly (It was available for download on the old Black Library site but since they put the new site up the free comics are no longer available) and it was reprinted in the "Flames of Damnation" collection which featured a Vindicare on a mission.

Frankly some of the stunts he pulled off (leaps, dives etc) while trying to get extracted you'd need Unnatural Strength to perform.

Thanks for all the input!

Nerd King said:

Is there any way for those of us who were not as blessed to see that to buy that comic or something? It sounds like a really good resource, given how little is written on the Temple Assassins (which isn't surprising as they are so far removed from our conceptions of humanity and some don't have personalities at all).

As a quick tangent, how is "Vindicare" pronounced?

Vin (as in how the english pronounce french wine)

D (as in the extended letter Dee, no in the blunt letter Duh)

Care (because we do, like bears, and we're out to save the world..)

Velvetears said:

I guess the original High Gothic pronounciation was more akin to Latin (vindicare means "avenge" or "punish" in Latin), thus vinh-dee-car-hey.

I'd go with Kyorou's assessment, especially given how the Imperium likes to use Latin-esque naming conventions (Adepta Sororitas, Adeptus Mechanicus, Ordo Malleus, etc.) Incidentally, the names of the other varieties of temple assassins are all derived from Latin as well, with the exception of the Culexus (no result returned when I looked it up in a Latin dictionary).

-Kirov

Culex is latin for Gnat and us is the plural.

Makes very little sense being its backwards fiction writers latin, except slightly with the context that their motto is That which is unknown and unseen always commands the greatest fear and small bloodsucking, souless vermin are pretty hards to find.

One minute you're a sub-alpha level psyker capable of blowing up Lords of change and the next, you will be the ***** now

Sorry, for the delay, but i finaly found my 2nd Ed OA-Codex.

Now, as others have posted as well as i have, the Assassins are, according to fluff, little one-man-armies, and rarer than SMurfs.

Here's a little review to how Assassins worked in general in the old edition, first of their special rules:

Immune to psychology: They know no fear, pinning or other moral dilemmas.

Gas-weapons: Since all OA-employees get a special form of Syn-Skin they are airtight, watertight and protected from gases. That special skin even adds counter-toxins into the blood-stream, making them immune to all form of gas weapons, most toxins and virues (only 'nid-toxins hurt them).

Dodge!: Not only faster than human, they are faster than superhumans! They were allowed to dodge all incoming harming attacks, even Psy-powers.

Infra-vision: special implants give them IR-vision, enabling them to see in total darkness and through most forms of fog and gas.

Infiltration: i don't think i have to explain this one, do i?

Their profile:

Since it is not allowed to post those, let me describe it this way: As strong and tough as a SM-Captain, but faster, higher movement-rate and their WS and BS got only topped by the Greater Deamons of Khorne and the Avatar of Khaine.

A little extra i found in the Codex (in my own words rewritten):

Only the High Senate (on Terra) has the authority to issue the use of a Temple Assassin. They are the ultimate tool of destruction and diplomacy. There are many who think they can escape the Imperiums authority. Cult leaders, power mongers, the fools and the perverted, none of them can be allowed to survive. Planetary leaders and governours everywhere in the Imperium have to understand that the missuse of their power ultimatly brings their death through blade or bullet. Some may escape the Adeptus Arbites, fewer the Guard and the Space Marines, but none escapes the OA.

Assassins start their training in their early youth, after being chosen among the population of Death Worlds, medieval societies and the most dangerous makropol-worlds the Imperium has. The training starts as soon as the recruits are on board the ships that birng them to Terra. Limited food and air, total darkness, blinding light, low and high gravity, blistering heat or freezing colds, they have to survive against all odds and their fellow students. Often only a tenth of the recuits arrives on Terra, sometimes even none when they disappoint the Instructors.

Every Imperial Assassin is introduced to one of the many secret temples of the OA. No two temples have the same training routine, and no one receives the training of two different temples.

Now, a more personaly comment: For DH an OA would need Unnatural Characteristic for Strengh, Toughness Agility and Speed to really represent the one-man-army that they are. but somehow i am happy that only 12 guys on Terra can give the OK for the use of one. i got 3 Assassins in my DH group, if they all (or 2) would go Ascension and OA i'd disband my DH-group. A threat that requires the 12 to order 2 (!) of them to go there ... would simply be too much for the rest of the group. And me.

bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php

The above link is (as far as I'm aware) one of the most comprehensive resources for knowledge about the OA. It also provides a couple handy book titles which give an insight to their modus operandi, if you have the time to buy and read them.