Can a ship use collision detector to get an unobstructed shot?

It is a very specific situation: a ship with collision detector lands on an obstacle with parts of the obstacle in front of it and obstructing a shot. It can spend a charge to ignore the effects of this (and no others!) obstacle until the end of the round.

The entry on Obstructed calls the additional defense die specifically "an additional effect". Collision detector allows the ship to ignore the obstacle for its standard effect, but also for the additional effect of the additional defense die.

I do not think that this is intended. Ignoring the obstacle should probably be limited to the standard effects, i.e. getting the stress from debris and eventual damage from the roll. But as it is written currently, this niche case seems plausible to me.

Relevant text:

Collision detector: "While you boost or barrel roll, you can move through and overlap obstacles. After you move through or overlap an obstacle, you may spend 1 [charge] to ignore its effects until the end of the round."

Obstructed, rules reference p13: "An attack is obstructed if the attacker measures range through an object. If a ship or device obstructs an attack, there is no inherent effect. If an obstacle obstructs an attack, there is an additional effect. If at least one asteroid or debris cloud obstructs an attack, the defender rolls one additional defense die during the Roll Defense Dice step."

I'd argue you get the obstruction when defending as it's a change to their shot but not when attacking as it's and effect of the rock on your shot but it's not 100% clear and could use and official confirmation.

47 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd argue you get the obstruction when defending as it's a change to their shot but not when attacking as it's and effect of the rock on your shot but it's not 100% clear and could use and official confirmation.

that would be the best of all cases and might be a bit too much to argue if it happens...

As I see it, a ship which triggers Collision Detector ignores that obstacle while attacking. So their attacks will be unobstructed, and anyone ColDet shoots will not receive the extra die. When the ColDet ship is defending, obstruction is an effect on the attacker, so the ColDet ship would roll the extra die.

8 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

that would be the best of all cases and might be a bit too much to argue if it happens...

It would be but it's also the logical interpretation.

+1 to @thespaceinvader and @theBitterFig . Obstruction is determined by the line the attacker draws; thus, an activated Collision Detector thus ignores the obstruction bonus effect when attacking, because you check for obstructions, but has no effect when defending (meaning you get the extra defense die), because they check, instead.

Would it be logical to say the defender rolls his defence dice and therefore when he adds the extra die for obstruction you an argue he ignores the obstacle?

Just now, irishthump said:

Would it be logical to say the defender rolls his defence dice and therefore when he adds the extra die for obstruction you an argue he ignores the obstacle?

No, because the attacker is the one who measures to see whether the obstacle is obstructing the attack.

Honestly, the whole thing is pretty unclear and the rules around attacks and rocks generally could use clarity, both for this reason, for the Han/Qi'ra interaction, and for Qi'ra generally.

It's a shame, but even with the rules MASSIVELY cleared up in 2e, there is still a lot of wooliness.

IMHO it should be the same as Dash’s ability. Activation phase only.

Sure, if you're gonna drop the points a bunch. It's only worth what it's worth because it lets you shoot on rocks.

5 hours ago, irishthump said:

IMHO it should be the same as Dash’s ability. Activation phase only.

Don't bring dashes ability into this... that's a whole pile of arguments over that ability.

On 9/29/2018 at 12:11 PM, thespaceinvader said:

I'd argue you get the obstruction when defending as it's a change to their shot but not when attacking as it's and effect of the rock on your shot but it's not 100% clear and could use and official confirmation.

So based on the rules clarification, this is now officially correct.

Dash/Qira ignore the obstacle when they attack for the additional defense die, but this other ship can not ignore the obstacle and Dash/Qira get the defense die when they defend an obstructed attack.

Collision Detector should be analogous

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

So based on the rules clarification, this is now officially correct.

Dash/Qira ignore the obstacle when they attack for the additional defense die, but this other ship can not ignore the obstacle and Dash/Qira get the defense die when they defend an obstructed attack.

Collision Detector should be analogous

Yup, that's definitely clear at this point.

I have another collision detector question:

A phantom used both charges. It can still decloak over a rock and the die has to be rolled.

But what about the action?

Based on adaptive ailerons (1.0 sure, also 2.0?), one option is that the action is still available if the actual maneuver doesn‘t overlap an asteroid.

34 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I have another collision detector question:

A phantom used both charges. It can still decloak over a rock and the die has to be rolled.

But what about the action?

Based on adaptive ailerons (1.0 sure, also 2.0?), one option is that the action is still available if the actual maneuver doesn‘t overlap an asteroid.

You're good to go. You only give up the Perform Action step if you overlap during a manoeuvre not just any move.

For completeness if you decloaked through a Debris Field you'd still get the stress and be unable to perform the action.

54 minutes ago, AramoroA said:

For completeness if you decloaked through a Debris Field you'd still get the stress and be unable to perform the action.

You can still do a blue maneuver to remove the stress. For completeness.

1 hour ago, eRADicator67 said:

You can still do a blue maneuver to remove the stress. For completeness.

Kinda. If you clear the stress on your move, you'll get your normal perform action step. However, if you decloak over debris and get stressed, even if you have a blue move dialed in, you won't have cleared the stress yet, and thus won't get the Evade action from Stygium Array.

I think the earlier posts were kinda unclear about the context, and that it's not just the Perform Action Step under discussion, but also Stygium Array.

31 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Kinda. If you clear the stress on your move, you'll get your normal perform action step. However, if you decloak over debris and get stressed, even if you have a blue move dialed in, you won't have cleared the stress yet, and thus won't get the Evade action from Stygium Array.

I think the earlier posts were kinda unclear about the context, and that it's not just the Perform Action Step under discussion, but also Stygium Array.

Yeah I had kinda missed the Stygium Array part, you can obviously do that part because it's not even in the Perform Action Step (Which you don't skip anyway). Only going through Debris and stressing yourself would stop you.