I always find myself starved for force on Vader.
Often the first engagement I burn 2 before even shooting (SR + Focus)
I also often find it hard to stick on one target with him because I believe stress is the enemy (still adapting from 1.0 Vader) so every other turn I'll burn a force for an action.
The real question for me with Vader is if I have 1 eye result and another shot incoming, do I spend the force or the focus?
I find if I have a force and a focus, and there's only one eye result, I burn the force.
9 hours ago, SpiderMana said:You can use them on attacks as well
That’s part of why they’re so valuable.
Still only 1 every 4 dice.
Spend 1 on Luke's proton torp.
Then he gets attacked so gets 1 back. Rolls evade/blank.
Next turn same thing and he is dead, with 2 force tokens unused. I feel it is decent for offense, but when defending it is a false economy.
9 hours ago, Shoulder of Orion said:No, people say he is harder to kill (than a standard x-wing) and this is true.
Only having two green dice does indeed mean that he should avoid getting shot at by 3 dice ships whenever possible.
If only he had some sort of upgrade he could use to alter his facing prior to movement. This could allow him to react to enemy positioning and also effectively double reposition.
That sort of upgrade would be amazing and the positional flexibility would improve his survivability in ways that have nothing to do with dice.
It's not so great when he repositions to avoid being shot by 3 dice, then the I6 (or I5 with initiative) ace moves after him, and also repositions to get a shot with their 3 dice on him anyway.
Force is really good ... and I think, looking beyond pilots to crew, it will take ffg to hit the sweet spot in terms of costing force sensitive crew. Take Ezra gunner. He is literally worse than Bistan in every way, but he gives you a force point, so is costed in the same ball park.
I think we will see some tinkering of costs for force users to settle them in based on value. The issue is that, make them too cheap and they are auto include. Right now I think they are over costed by 3-5 points each.
I agree wu
4 hours ago, Roundy1161 said:I always find myself starved for force on Vader.
Often the first engagement I burn 2 before even shooting (SR + Focus)
I also often find it hard to stick on one target with him because I believe stress is the enemy (still adapting from 1.0 Vader) so every other turn I'll burn a force for an action.
Absolutely.. I tried vader the other day and I found that I burned through all three force tokens very very quickly... only being able to generate one force token per turn really limits him.
Sorry but Vader isn't amazing, especially for his cost. I found he was focused down fairly quickly for some easy points and he couldn't do enough damage to make it worth my while as he is firepower 2, but sometimes 3. Not great.
We can kinda surmise it is currently priced at approx 11pts.
Fifth brother gunner may as well be marksmanship with a force point attached to it for 12pts.
Now is that too high? It is hard to say for me. If there were high agility ships with a gunner slot it could very well be worth it, but on a bomber, no way
9 minutes ago, william1134 said:I agree wu
Absolutely.. I tried vader the other day and I found that I burned through all three force tokens very very quickly... only being able to generate one force token per turn really limits him.
Sorry but Vader isn't amazing, especially for his cost. I found he was focused down fairly quickly for some easy points and he couldn't do enough damage to make it worth my while as he is firepower 2, but sometimes 3. Not great.
I disagree that he isn't amazing. I find him absolutely staggeringly good. He is no longer as tanky as he once was, but holy **** does he put out the pain now. His damage output is soo much higher than 1st edition. It is very uncommon to not be shooting with 3 dice for me.
I believe SR is better than engine upgrade was in 1.0, but a very different playstyle.
Vader was my favorite pilot to play in 1.0, and he's still there for me now.
However Soontir and Whisper have caught up to him a lot.
On 9/30/2018 at 9:48 AM, william1134 said:Personally I feel it is a bit naff as it only effects eyeballs..
Yes! I had Vader wiff with three blank {fickle} green dice.
I had no shields left and Vader was destroyed with a full suite of force tokens unused!
Still, it’s argubably Fluffy given what happened in ANH.
I didn't see it in my game. Having firepower 2 that can get bumped up to 3 if you have a TL isn't amazing.. that's basically an Xwing.
In 1.0 you had the automatic crit from atc but now you need to roll and mod it as you would any other dice.
If you think Vader is bad because you got shot and and died, then you are bad, not Vader. His strength is in not being shot at. If he is eating shots on a regular basis, you are doing something wrong.
4 hours ago, Porkchop Express said:Still only 1 every 4 dice.
Spend 1 on Luke's proton torp.
Then he gets attacked so gets 1 back. Rolls evade/blank.
Next turn same thing and he is dead, with 2 force tokens unused. I feel it is decent for offense, but when defending it is a false economy.
Ah, it really sucks that he regens force tokens too much for you. Good to know you wouldn’t put that many points into a build that got a free calculate for every defense roll, though.
If your opponent manages to fly such that get gets to fire not one, but two proton torpedos in a row at Luke, he kind of deserves to win.
1 minute ago, Okapi said:If your opponent manages to fly such that get gets to fire not one, but two proton torpedos in a row at Luke, he kind of deserves to win.
Luke was the one firing the torps. Just can't outfly higher Init, more manoevrable ships. And in that situation his pilot ability really doesn't do much.
Just now, Porkchop Express said:Luke was the one firing the torps. Just can't outfly higher Init, more manoevrable ships. And in that situation his pilot ability really doesn't do much.
Is there a higher Init, more manueverable ship with access to torpedos though? Off the top of my head I don't think Vader, Dengar, Fenn, Soontir or Han has them, and Wedge is obviously in the same ship.
Just now, Okapi said:Is there a higher Init, more manueverable ship with access to torpedos though? Off the top of my head I don't think Vader, Dengar, Fenn, Soontir or Han has them, and Wedge is obviously in the same ship.
I5 ships will move after if they have a bigger bid. Boba Fett with his hard 1, boost and double firing arc has an easy time keeping his shots on Luke. Granted if Luke goes second it is much easier to avoid being shot, but then you have the task of getting out of arc while also getting your target in arc.
Just now, Porkchop Express said:I5 ships will move after if they have a bigger bid. Boba Fett with his hard 1, boost and double firing arc has an easy time keeping his shots on Luke. Granted if Luke goes second it is much easier to avoid being shot, but then you have the task of getting out of arc while also getting your target in arc.
I guess it depends on how you build him. An offensive Luke with Instinctive Aim and Proton Torpedos or a defensive one with Supernatural Reflexes and just the primary. The choice of astromech also seems pretty open, really. Kind of makes me want to try a tanky, sneaky Luke with R4 and Supernatural, maybe an Informant nearby.
8 minutes ago, Okapi said:I guess it depends on how you build him. An offensive Luke with Instinctive Aim and Proton Torpedos or a defensive one with Supernatural Reflexes and just the primary. The choice of astromech also seems pretty open, really. Kind of makes me want to try a tanky, sneaky Luke with R4 and Supernatural, maybe an Informant nearby.
I think he struggles to make his points back if you make him a tank. At least offensively you can target lock and having force acts like a dual action.