Fleet here for context. Thinking about trying it out.

This thread isnt so much about the FLEET as Im wondering how people would feel and/or have experienced a Sato build of this ilk.

Fleet 730 (397/400)
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MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100 + 72)
+ Commander Sato (32)
+ Damage Control Officer (5)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ Hardened Bulkheads (5)
+ Electronic Countermeasures (7)
+ External Racks (3)
+ Expanded Launchers (13)
+ Aspiration (3)
CR90 Corvette B (39 + 6)
+ Projection Experts (6)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + ?
+ Bomber Command Center (8)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
8 x Lancer-class Pursuit Craft (8 x 15)
Rogue Squadron (14)
Most Wanted
Contested Outpost
Superior Positions

SATO goes screaming into primary target...soaking up damage. Aces ISD like its cool.

11 black dice out the front in Most Wanted. Rerollable of course.

Has anyone dealt with a kingmaker chariot for Sato like this?

How did it pan out?

In my experience with something similar:

You've got essentially a souped up Demolisher with... Much the same defensive suite... One Brace and One redirect does not last long... Not on the King of Sucker-Punches.

This really needs a way to guarantee that Last=First, so it can Smack Hard, Smack Hard Again, and more importantly, live to tell the tale.

... and no time have I taken Lancers have I had them do anything but die to seemingly Incidental Flak. You'll be happier with 6 YT-2400s and a stronger bid.

10 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

In my experience with something similar:

You've got essentially a souped up Demolisher with... Much the same defensive suite... One Brace and One redirect does not last long... Not on the King of Sucker-Punches.

This really needs a way to guarantee that Last=First, so it can Smack Hard, Smack Hard Again, and more importantly, live to tell the tale.

... and no time have I taken Lancers have I had them do anything but die to seemingly Incidental Flak. You'll be happier with 6 YT-2400s and a stronger bid.

I want to like lancers but lancers have to learn to love themselves first before anyone else will ever end up with them.

I was considering a mess of them with Sato since if you spread out its harder to lock them down, what with grit and all. Bomber sort of gives you another avenue of attack against min squad lists.

Thats delving into list building though...maybe Ill post this in the list forum.

Zero use out of Sato.

Thread closed

Ginks, did I ever mention, how much I love you? ?

Yeah, the Mc75 looks like fun to fly. But why is Sato the admiral? I can see trying to do a massive punch out of the front of the MC75, the the front are has a perfect dice suite already.

Dodonna would be a much better choice.

It transpires that Deadshane really means, "Has anyone found use in a bulldozer mc75 build?".

Hat to blink at that cr90 a couple of times. It didnt go away. Why not a pelta for the same role with IF? It can actually repair up aspiration, increase whole fleets dmg output. Could fit an ordenance upgrade too.

Satos only use is to beef up crit effects by making them long range, or, in the case of WAB, letting them be able to one shot squads and flotilla that are nearby. Your list uses sato for an extra 3.25 damage a turn, assuming the cr90 and the MC75 are both double arcing at close range and before defense tokens come into play.

So, answering the question then of whether a bulldozer mc75 works. The mc75 is so vulnerable that ideally youd want to have first last, but that's going to require rebel LMSU which doesnt work out as well compared to raiders and demo or raiders and a ISD.

6 hours ago, ExplosiveTooka said:

Satos only use is to beef up crit effects by making them long range, or, in the case of WAB, letting them be able to one shot squads and flotilla that are nearby. Your list uses sato for an extra 3.25 damage a turn, assuming the cr90 and the MC75 are both double arcing at close range and before defense tokens come into play.

How much Extra damage would you be, on average, generating a turn if you used Sato for Long Range APT effects in a usual list?

Is it much greater than 3.25, considering averages ?

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

How much Extra damage would you be, on average, generating a turn if you used Sato for Long Range APT effects in a usual list?

Is it much greater than 3.25, considering averages ?

A lot more actually. 2 hammerheads firing at long range using DCaps and concentrating fire do 3 damage more on average before adding in crit effects

3 minutes ago, ExplosiveTooka said:

A lot more actually. 2 hammerheads firing at long range using DCaps and concentrating fire do 3 damage more on average before adding in crit effects

For that one turn, for sure, but afterwards?

Versus a consistent bonus?

I'm not sure... (Mostly because I'm terrible with Averages).

And then, to head it off... I guess my next question is, legitimately, "How much extra damage do you NEED to be doing, in order to turn it from 'Useless' to 'Worthwhile'..." ?

What's the metric on that? Damage-per-Point of Upgrade?

I think these numbers are right (please feel free to double check them!)

Assuming ACMs, DCaps, OE, a CF command and an aggressive reroll of anything that isn't initially a crit:

approximately 5.39404 avg. damage at long range (1.25 * 3 + [1-0.75^6]*2.)

Versus a long range CF shot, yielding 1.5 damage. (2.25 with DCaps.)

For APTs you could simply swap the 2 for a 1, but that extra damage will always do something hard to quantify (if nothing else it's worth adding the possibility of a Structural Damage, and possibly Projector Misaligned and Shield Failure sine these are long range shots.)

Now, as Dras points out, you're paying 10 points extra over a "cheapo" Hammerhead with ER and TFO. The benefits and drawbacks of that are pretty hard to calculate (risk of Sato not triggering, targets without redirects only getting shot once, that extra 2 damage being unbraceable, an inability to resolve standard critical effects while maintaining damage output, etc.)