T-85 and TIE/FO Interceptor? Let the theorizing being

By Animewarsdude, in X-Wing

6 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

This is only a year before TFA, so i doubt they were all that much smaller in manpower. But they are, in general, smaller than the Empire ever was, so they go for quality not just quantity. and they definitely were trying to look like a small organization at the time. keeping their new Star Destroyers hidden away in the unknown regions, and not even sending their older Imperial Class ships into the wider galaxy often either, relying more on heavy and light cruisers, frigates, etc. same as the majority of the New Republic. sorta like japan after WW1. played along with the naval restriction treaties publicly, while working on a lot of treaty breaking hardware covertly until they had the right moment to reveal a powerful force.

the First order, prior to the events of TFA, were trying to convince the wider galaxy that they were just another small imperial remnant, and relatively harmless. and their presence outside the Unknown Regions, in the areas of the ex-imperial splinter groups and such, pretty much fit that narrative. potent gear, but not all that publicly large, and they were very careful to try and keep their more oppressive imperial style activities covert, to make a better impres  sion in the new Republic. you see a lot of this in the Poe Dameron comics and the sequel trilogy related written works.

one thing that stands out to me is that i'd almost swear that the FO interceptor feels older than the TIE/FO and TIE/SF.. something about the mix of the interceptor and V1 features. probably just because it resembles the TIE/V1 so much, and that is an older design relative to 34 ABY. sticking interceptor style panel shapes seems like something that would be the next step after the V1.. and something that obviously would have been tried well before 34 ABY. probably just a perception thing on my part.

i have reconsidered my thoughts on the weapons it used though.. the white blast things. i am no longer sure those are meant to be concussion missiles.. mainly because the gunports that fire them look too small to be missile tubes. and it obviously wasn't carrying them externally like the TIE Defender Elite did. so now i'm wondering if that wasn't the "mag pulse warheads" weapon that was part of the TIE/SF's arsenal according to Poe, and which got mentions as a weapon the T-70 and TIE/SF could use in the cutaways book. such a weapon might not be a missile, but rather more like a cannon. and having a magnetic field effect could help explain the way the blasts went into a helical spiral. presumably they'd disable the target in some fashion, or perhaps mess up certain systems, resulting in major damage to the target.

I think they'd changed their mind so that The Resistance takes place 6 months before TFA, I think one of the writers even said something about the show going to explore that point when they get to it, so that should be interesting.

And I guess either way, we will be getting a new missile upgrade then either in that Tie Interceptor/FO expansion or the TIE/SF on for the mag pulse, so again that will be good.

10 hours ago, Stealthcmc1974 said:

Found this gem on Youtube. I love his explanations for all of his design changes for this more realistic render.

https://youtu.be/32vjnFjEFcA

Ah, god, that's really excellent. Saw that last night and had a fit of joy. 100% improvement on an already wonderful design, but one issue is that the nose cone doesn't rise from the fuselage properly, but that's okay.

6 hours ago, Odanan said:

Boy, Dark Empire is terrible...

I do love most EU made around the OT, but there is so much crap they wrote after the RotJ timeline... Disney didn't need to wipe out everything, but in the end it was a good thing.

Bingo. And they sure as **** couldn't play favorites, because that would've been a crapstorm unto itself. Just imagine that one!

3 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

LOL - you MUST realize it was just a crappy plot device though, right? I don't care about the validity of hyperdrive fuel (which is really a stupid concept in general - every ship has a reactor that generates energy and there's no reaction mass used in hyperspace, so, um yeah - there's no science you can throw at me to make me think otherwise - it's a stupid concept - hyperdrives open a gap into some sort of sub-space; a dimension where the speed of light can be exceeded). So, let's just accept that hyperdrive fuel is a thing. It's still lazy writing to have that be the thing that causes the downfall of the Resistance. There should have been an epic battle filled with heroic acts. Instead, we got The Last Jedi.

3 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Lazy writing man. I clearly stated that I accept the fuel issue - it's still lazy writing.

Gods, do you have a single thought that isn't straight from Cinemasins or Redlettermedia?

3 hours ago, WAC47 said:

I agree! To take an opportunity to expand on the point: the quality of the stories has less to do with the reset as the opening up of room to tell more stories.

Lucasfilm wasn’t saying “Legends was bad, let’s start over” (although there was a lot that was bad, just as there was plenty that was good). It was saying “we need to tell more stories, and Legends restricts what we can do too much”

And judging by how vehemently people on the internet disagree about what from Legends was good... picking and choosing what stories to keep would’ve been impossible, and confusing to anyone unfamiliar with those stories. A hard reset was necessary, but it has little to do with an evaluation of quality.

Also, @Bad Idea Comics is clearly not open to changing their opinion about starship fuel. I personally think it is a weird hill to die on given no one has ever said “thank goodness our hyperdrives don’t need fuel” at any point in a Star Wars story and you shouldn’t hold writers to your headcanon, but I think the conversation should move on.

Preach it brother.

3 hours ago, Ambaryerno said:

The problem is HOW fuel is used as a plot point. Case in point:

In Legends, the Falcon's record on the Kessel Run is entirely a matter of Han's abilities as a pilot and navigator, and the speed of the Falcon's engines. Solo takes away from both and makes it about the Magic Hyperfuel (and gratuitous over-the-top CGI monsters). I mean it was like watching someone solving a puzzle in a video game. "Oh noes! We're being sucked into a black hole! What do we have in our inventory that can get us out of this predicament?"

Bro.

It has LONG been accepted that the only way Han did the Kessel Run in 12 Parsecs was because he found a shortcut. Oh and guess what! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE DID.

What the **** are you on about?

8 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Bro.

It has LONG been accepted that the only way Han did the Kessel Run in 12 Parsecs was because he found a shortcut. Oh and guess what! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE DID.

What the **** are you on about?

BRO.

Everything I've ever seen about Han and the Kessel Run prior to Solo is that the Falcon's speed allowed her to pass closer to the black holes, allowing Han to plot a more direct course rather than taking a circuitous route. Not a god **** word about giant electric space squid and magic superfuel MacGuffins.

BRO.

2 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

allowed her to pass closer to the black holes

IE a short cut... :)

3 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

BRO.

Everything I've ever seen about Han and the Kessel Run prior to Solo is that the Falcon's speed allowed her to pass closer to the black holes, allowing Han to plot a more direct course rather than taking a circuitous route. Not a god **** word about giant electric space squid and magic superfuel MacGuffins.

BRO.

Well no, nothing about huge space monsters or coaxium, you're right about that. Not that either are PARTICULARLY new concepts...

Just now, Hiemfire said:

IE a short cut... :)

eyyyyyy

12 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

BRO.

Everything I've ever seen about Han and the Kessel Run prior to Solo is that the Falcon's speed allowed her to pass closer to the black holes, allowing Han to plot a more direct course rather than taking a circuitous route. Not a god **** word about giant electric space squid and magic superfuel MacGuffins.

BRO.

BRO.

That description makes me love Solo’s Kessel Run even more than I already did. Also, “Giant Electric Space Squid and the Magic Superfuel MacGuffins” is a great band name. Dibs.

13 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

IE a short cut... :)

A short cut that only worked because of the magic superfuel.

Just now, Ambaryerno said:

A short cut that only worked because of the magic superfuel.

Not in Legends as you explained and I was pointing out was also a short cut. What else would you call flying closer to a black hole than almost anyone else was crazy enough to do???

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

Not in Legends as you explained and I was pointing out was also a short cut. What else would you call flying closer to a black hole than almost anyone else was crazy enough to do???

My point was that Lackwit using "they took a shortcut" to transmorgify apples into oranges is a blatant strawman.

9 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

My point was that Lackwit using "they took a shortcut" to transmorgify apples into oranges is a blatant strawman.

Aboleth... Tentacle monster.

Aside from that he was pointing out that Lucas Film more or less stuck to the outline laid out by the multiple and often contradictory Legends novels with a bit of poetic license added in. As for coaxium, engines need fuel, this is established in both Legends and Canon. Coaxium is to hyperdrives what Avgas is to race car engines... Not that big of a stretch...

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Aboleth... Tentacle monster.

Aside from that he was pointing out that Lucas Film more or less stuck to the outline laid out by the multiple and often contradictory Legends novels with a bit of poetic license added in. As for coaxium, engines need fuel, this is established in both Legends and Canon. Coaxium is to hyperdrives what Avgas is to race car engines... Not that big of a stretch...

I stopped reading the EU after NJO ended, so fortunately I never got to that travesty (Jacen Solo going Sith Lord was a big enough punch to the suspension of disbelief as it was. Although in hindsight, a psychopath like Daala becoming president is suddenly a lot more plausible these days...).

And as I said, the problem isn't about there being fuel as a concept in the universe, it's how it's being used narratively.

There's a Rebels Recon episode with a great Pablo Hidalgo answer to a question on black holes or time dilation or something. "Get your science out of my space fantasy!"

//

I've got no problem with folks who know a bit more about mechanical things being involved with prop design. It's fine, probably can make some ship designs look better.

But the Kessel Run is a great example. Stage direction in the script show that Obi-Wan* knows Han is kinda full of ish when he's bragging about doing the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs, since clearly a parsec is a measure of distance rather than time, and Han Solo doesn't understand the difference. But there's a backfill about how hyperspace navigation is all about plotting the shortest distances, so what Han was saying was true, from a certain point of view, and not just lies to make his sales pitch better.

OK.

But none of that matters.

What matters is that Han's a cocky dirtbag screw-up, but like the Falcon, he's got it where it counts.

There's nothing wrong with a more technical, science-y sci-fi universe. It's just different. And that's good. Star Wars and Star Trek and Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica and so on all feel different, and that's good. Spice of life and all.

//

* Obi-Wan, based on how characters in ANH use either it or the name Ben Kenobi, was almost surely the title of a Jedi Knight. Meanwhile, Darth was used more like a name than a title. But it sounds better with Darth as a title, and Obi-Wan as a name, so I'm glad the usage changed over time, and Rey wasn't looking for the lost Obi-Wan Skywalker.

35 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

A short cut that only worked because of the magic superfuel.

The magic superfuel is only used to escape the gravitational pull of the singularity, after they used it to get rid of the giant electric space squid (GESS to abbreviate) it has nothing to do with the shortcut itself.

In other words, if the GESS hadn't been there, they wouldn't have needed some drops of the unrefined magic superfuel directly in the core to get the extra boost… They would have simply moved along the shortcut, whistling happily.

Keep on hating man, it's unhealthy for you and produces premature wrinkles.

On 10/12/2018 at 8:04 PM, Stinger07 said:

The 3D modeler in me finds this a bit... disappointing. The noise is off, too narrow and the fins are far too large. The... things on the sides of the cockpit are too large. It just feels off. Can't wait to see it refined a bit.

I scaled the flaps and fins with this screenshot from the show. Which was extremelly useful :D
pic4360432.jpg

1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Gods, do you have a single thought that isn't straight from Cinemasins or Redlettermedia?

I have no idea what those are. If you're attempting to be derogatory you're failing miserably. Let's try to be civil - I never had any intention for people to get upset by calling out lazy writing. I'm honestly not even certain what anyone is so upset about. I've accepted the fuel issue, as I stated earlier. I don't like it, but I accept it. It's use was lazy writing in TLJ. I mind it less in Solo.

Regarding Solo, the scene with the black hole and space monster: you folks realize that was from the Odyssey, right? It's the Scylla and Charybdis. I love that they made Han Solo into the Ulysses of Star Wars.

I want to apologize to the OP - I feel I'm partly to blame here - this thread has veered WAY off topic.

33 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Regarding Solo, the scene with the black hole and space monster: you folks realize that was from the Odyssey, right? It's the Scylla and Charybdis. I love that they made Han Solo into the Ulysses of Star Wars.

With added grounding within Star Wars that the Maw and Aboleth both fit the concept. Not that space monsters are unique to the Maw. The Space Slug from Empire Strikes Back and Mynoks also introduced in that film being two examples.

Edited by Hiemfire
26 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

With added grounding within Star Wars that the Maw and Aboleth both fit the concept. Not that space monsters are unique to the Maw. The Space Slug from Empire Strikes Back and Mynoks also introduced in that film being two examples.

Or the fact that Hyperdrive space whales can take out star destroyers...ugh that is nearly as bad as Heli-sabers.

16 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Or the fact that Hyperdrive space whales can take out star destroyers...ugh that is nearly as bad as Heli-sabers.

Nearly as bad.

2 hours ago, melminiatures said:

I scaled the flaps and fins with this screenshot from the show. Which was extremelly useful :D
pic4360432.jpg

Those S-Foils... man they're huge.

I ordered one of your T-85s, just waiting for it to get printed and shipped ?

2 hours ago, melminiatures said:

I scaled the flaps and fins with this screenshot from the show. Which was extremelly useful :D
pic4360432.jpg

I hate having run myself out of reactions on this forum... Grrrrr…… :)

34 minutes ago, Stealthcmc1974 said:

Those S-Foils... man they're huge.

That's one of the problems IMO with the staggered foil design. It makes the ship much larger on the dorsal/ventral plan, which also makes it a much bigger target from an elevated position .

Even if you increase the chord of the individual foils slightly, the ship would still look significantly smaller if they stack vertically when closed, rather than sitting fore and aft.

Edited by Ambaryerno
1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

Or the fact that Hyperdrive space whales can take out star destroyers...ugh that is nearly as bad as Heli-sabers.

In that space whales and helisabers are both awesome, yes.

9 hours ago, Ambaryerno said:

A short cut that only worked because of the magic superfuel.

It isn't magic. But they did inject it at the right time, in use for a boost. Really this genuinely isn't a hard concept yo.

8 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

I have no idea what those are. If you're attempting to be derogatory you're failing miserably. Let's try to be civil - I never had any intention for people to get upset by calling out lazy writing. I'm honestly not even certain what anyone is so upset about. I've accepted the fuel issue, as I stated earlier. I don't like it, but I accept it. It's use was lazy writing in TLJ. I mind it less in Solo.

Regarding Solo, the scene with the black hole and space monster: you folks realize that was from the Odyssey, right? It's the Scylla and Charybdis. I love that they made Han Solo into the Ulysses of Star Wars.

I want to apologize to the OP - I feel I'm partly to blame here - this thread has veered WAY off topic.

Fair enough. Also keep it that wat with with cinemasins and redlettermedia, trust me- it's junk food for the brain.

5 hours ago, Ambaryerno said:

That's one of the problems IMO with the staggered foil design. It makes the ship much larger on the dorsal/ventral plan, which also makes it a much bigger target from an elevated position .

Even if you increase the chord of the individual foils slightly, the ship would still look significantly smaller if they stack vertically when closed, rather than sitting fore and aft.

Well we've gotta' make it fair for TIE Fighter pilots eventually. You can barely miss the poor sods.

Found this on Twitter, someone painted up one of Mel's T-85s.

DqU2iFsU8AAlkKS.jpg DqU2jCKU4AAOsP5.jpg

I'm a firm believer that less is more. To much color for me. They look more like race cars. I keep looking for the sponsorship stickers.