7 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I think the biggest issue was with people who misunderstood the rather simplified explanation that Qui-Gon gave when Anakin asked. Being a child, there's no way that Anakin would have understood the full definition of what the midichlorians were, so being the understanding parental figure that he was, Qui-Gon gave the boy an answer that he could at least wrap his head around, which was that midichlorians were how living beings were able to connect with the Force.

Never once did Qui-Gon say that midichlorians were the source of the Force, which is what a lot of the haters presume, and the film itself simply treats them as a measuring stick. As you said, it's a quick, scientific-sounding way to say "this child has a great destiny in store."

Even understanding his explanation then, I wasn’t wild about the whole “they’re how we interface with the Force” angle. It didn’t demystify anything for me, it just seemed to put an unnecessary layer in there. At the same time, though, I had absolutely no problem with them being used as a way to measure someone’s Force potential. I just felt (and still do) that Qui-Gon’s Certain Point of View (TM) was backwards: the greater someone’s Force potential, the more midichlorians would be drawn to that person.

15 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

I just felt (and still do) that Qui-Gon’s Certain Point of View (TM) was backwards: the greater someone’s Force potential, the more midichlorians would be drawn to that person.

Yeah I'd say that is true. So the question is can someone exceed their force potential.

I think I figured out why I just don't get into the new main characters. They are written to be like the youth of today: unsure of themselves, not having a clear view of who they are or what they want out of life.

I'm young myself but I've always known what I wanted in life. I don't really identify with the way they are written, so I think that is why I don't really feel an attachment to the characters.

20 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

unsure of themselves, not having a clear view of who they are or what they want out of life.

It defines the youth from anytime not just from today.

22 minutes ago, WolfRider said:

It defines the youth from anytime not just from today.

Agreed.

Look back at films from previous generations, and it's more the rarity than the rule that you've got young people who are absolutely certain in their convictions about what it is they're doing. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not nearly as regular as some might think.

Heck, it might even be more realistic that Finn and Rey have their doubts as the movies progress; really of new heroic trio, only Poe is 100% certain of his path, but even that's not shown as 100% a good thing (given his gung-ho "fight to the end" attitude winds up getting a lot of good and irreplaceable people killed). Both Finn and Rey are stepping into a much larger galaxy than the rather sheltered upbringing they've had (Finn as an indoctrinated soldier, Rey's clinging to her childhood fantasy of her parents coming back after they'd abandoned her on a Maker-forsaken spec of dirt). A great many people, especially teenagers and people in their early 20's, tend to be unsure of themselves when thrust into situations beyond what they're used to. And some handle it better than others, much as Rey doing a better job of adapting (having to scavenge to survive helped) than Finn (who is so very much a fish out of water when he's not in the middle of a combat).

If anything, Luke is something of an exception, but then again he had Obi-Wan to help mentor him during the initial steps of his transition from farmboy to galactic hero, and let's face it, Luke was pretty much living his dream for most of ANH (apart from the whole dead family thing), and even through much of ESB. It was only after he got his worldview seriously unbalanced by Vader's revelation that he started having doubts about his path. Leia was pretty much drafted into fighting a guerilla war, and it could be said that Bail deliberately molded her to be a wartime leader and motivated to topple the oppressive regime that is the Empire. Han was himself fairly aimless apart from "be a great pilot" and "make money as a criminal," both as an adult in the OT and as a younger man in Solo.

That's what made the ending of TLJ so beautiful.

It parallels Luke Skywalker of the OT: full of youthful ambition, a burning need to find his place in the galaxy, and most of all, hope,

-with Luke Skywalker of TLJ, tired, broken, and filled with regret from mistakes. But now he knows his place in the galaxy, has fulfilled his destiny, and is able to leave everyone with that same hope he once had; and in so doing, he inspires a new generation of future Luke Skywalkers to stand up and bring their own sense of balance to the Force.

And then that same beautiful Williams score kicks in and I blubber like the 30-year-old man-child that I am.

17 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

That's what made the ending of TLJ so beautiful.

It parallels Luke Skywalker of the OT: full of youthful ambition, a burning need to find his place in the galaxy, and most of all, hope,

-with Luke Skywalker of TLJ, tired, broken, and filled with regret from mistakes. But now he knows his place in the galaxy, has fulfilled his destiny, and is able to leave everyone with that same hope he once had; and in so doing, he inspires a new generation of future Luke Skywalkers to stand up and bring their own sense of balance to the Force.

And then that same beautiful Williams score kicks in and I blubber like the 30-year-old man-child that I am.

Well put!

I didn't love TLJ, but I liked it, mainly because of the exploration of some of the themes. I think I'm about alone in the galaxy in quite enjoying the Canto Bight side-story. It threw a little grey morality into the mix, and made a good point about putting people on pedestals (in that case, the old Rebel Alliance), which nicely dovetailed into the whole Rey/Luke dynamic.

Most of the complaints I've heard about TLJ I can ignore, to be honest. Pacing problems? Yeah...they don't bother me. My daughter and I argue over this (she hated TLJ), but I'm just not that aware of pacing issues in movies. I don't think I could even define "pacing", to be honest.

The "Mary Poppins" scene? A bit cheesy, yeah, but certainly explainable with Leia being a Skywalker and all.

Poe v Holdo? Again, I'm with a lot of folks who think Holdo was probably a bit hard-****, but was also well within her rights to put Poe back in his box. He'd just been demoted for insubordination, had gotten a lot of Resistance fighters unnecessarily killed, and was hardly in a place to be demanding his CO explain everything to him. In a real life situation he probably would have been shot on the spot for mutiny, if we go by the Star Wars WW2 analogies.

The hyperspace ship-cannon? Why hasn't it been used before? *shrug* It may well have been. We're not privy to every tactic used throughout galactic history. More importantly, my impression was that it was *very* hard to do, required absolutely perfect timing, and wouldn't necessarily be all that effective all the time. Remember that Snoke's ship was still operational after it, although it was heavily damaged. The other SDs were taken out by shrapnel, not the impact with Holdo's ship. Sending it through, say, the Death Star would have punched a big hole in the DS and certainly inflicted a lot of damage, but that's no guarantee it would have destroyed it (also, there is no evidence of any Rebel capital ships at Yavin, and the DS2 was protected by the shield).

Rose saving Finn? *shrug* I didn't have a problem with it. Whether the decision was right or wrong is arguable (the novelisation suggests Finn would never have made it to hitting the cannon - it was about to fire and he would have been vapourised before hitting it), but the thematic value was more important, I thought. It wasn't about the Resistance going out in a blaze of glory, but rather about saving what was left and regrouping to fight another day.

Anyway...I thought it was better than the prequels by a long way, not as good as the original trilogy.
If I had to rank the SW movies?

ESB

ANH - ROTJ (equal)

Rogue One

TFA

TLJ

Solo

ROTS

TPM

AoTC

Almost my exact ranking - Solo sits above TLJ for me

5 hours ago, Varlie said:

Almost my exact ranking - Solo sits above TLJ for me

Yeah, I debated that. They're probably roughly equal for me - the only reason TLJ edged it out is that it was a full-blown saga film, rather than a standalone.

It's like Life of Brian was about SW fandom.

On 11/8/2018 at 1:07 PM, Varlie said:

Almost my exact ranking - Solo sits above TLJ for me

Very close to mine as well. ROTJ is my personal favorite so I put it a hair above ESB, and I love the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff in TLJ enough to put it above TFA. Other than those quibbles my list is the same as Daronil's.