Now, first off, I'm not painting everyone with this brush. I'd like to think we live in a world where everything doesn't have to come with a disclaimer...but, this is the internet, and I'm talking about Star Wars, so that thought is a pipe dream. So, if you are just someone who doesn't like the new films, for whatever reason, but are NOT a flaming ******* about it, I'm not talking about you. This is directed at the type of person who can't even hear the mention of anything related to the new films, without having a spike in their blood pressure, and ranting in a toxic manner about SJWs and Kathleen Kennedy, and harassing people on twitter about it. Ok? Ok. Plus, this is a "mostly in jest" observation, but also how it does seem to me, as someone who grew up with the OT, but also thinks the NT is just fine.

The really toxic ******* about the new films, really feel like a kid, who walked into his room, and found his little sister playing with his Star Wars action figures, and is furious because she's having them do stuff that he doesn't want them doing. So he yells to his mom to "make her stop touching my things! She's not playing with them the right way!!"

That's it really, I know that's less than half the size of the disclaimer for it, but hey, sadly this is the world we live in. Anyway, carry on.

I would say that's pretty apt. Also... NB4Lock

2 minutes ago, kaosoe said:

I would say that's pretty apt. Also... NB4Lock

Oh, yeah I didn't really think about that. Eh, *shrugs*.

I feel like there are a lot of people who are in a middle-zone in this discussion. In your post, you mention two sides:

1) people who dislike the film and are calm about it

2) people who dislike the film and rant about SJWs

But then there's the people in the middle. People who rant about hating the movie, but not because of SJWs or anything, and people who dislike SJWs and just talk about it in a calm manner. I feel like people are too quick to divide detractors of the film into two distinct camps.

1 hour ago, Nivrap said:

I feel like there are a lot of people who are in a middle-zone in this discussion. In your post, you mention two sides:

1) people who dislike the film and are calm about it

2) people who dislike the film and rant about SJWs

But then there's the people in the middle. People who rant about hating the movie, but not because of SJWs or anything, and people who dislike SJWs and just talk about it in a calm manner. I feel like people are too quick to divide detractors of the film into two distinct camps.

Those people may exist, but I sure don't see them posting anything. I do however see the other category all over. Though I think you might have a strange definition of "rant". People who "rant" about something, aren't "talking about it in a calm manner". That's the polar opposite of a rant. If you are talking about why you don't like the films, and are actually making valid points, about things like the direction, the cinematography, the acting, pacing, etc. And your point is along the lines of "these elements just didn't do it for me", that's not a rant. That's a reasoned, rational statement of an opinion. And as I stated above, I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the kind of people who make a 45 minute video on youtube, and have the tag be things like "The SJW cucks have finally killed star wars, and it's your fault!!" kind of crap.

12 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

I'm talking about the kind of people who make a 45 minute video on youtube, and have the tag be things like "The SJW cucks have finally killed star wars, and it's your fault!!" kind of crap.

YouTube Videos are monetized by nature, the same guys who had all the fan theories a few years ago, wether they are motivated by disappointment their theory was wrong, or needing controversy to drive clicks they’re running a business that thrives on bad news.

1 minute ago, Eoen said:

YouTube Videos are monetized by nature, the same guys who had all the fan theories a few years ago, wether they are motivated by disappointment their theory was wrong, or needing controversy to drive clicks their running a business that thrives on bad news.

Sure, but there are also the kind of people who spam twitter to the point where Kelly Tran simply quits the service entirely because of the volume of toxic bile. And those two types of people sometimes are the same person. Again, I don't care about calm, reasoned critiques of the films. No film is perfect, including the OT, and discussing the pros and cons is fine. And I understand the concept of clickbait. But when you follow up that clickbait with a verbal howling fest, that's when I say you fall into the category I'm referring to in my OP.

I think there's some fans as well who are unused to having their world view challenged and are generally critically disengaged. It ends up with them subconsciously creating their own mythologies based on these pre-existing assumptions.

So when something comes along and doesn't mesh with it they end up suffering discomfort and cognitive dissonance that they can't quite articulate. You can probably also factor in basic literary criticism education being deprioritised in a lot of places meaning that a lot of people focus only on surface details as that is all they're equipped to handle.

7 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

Sure, but there are also the kind of people who spam twitter to the point where Kelly Tran simply quits the service entirely because of the volume of toxic bile. And those two types of people sometimes are the same person. Again, I don't care about calm, reasoned critiques of the films. No film is perfect, including the OT, and discussing the pros and cons is fine. And I understand the concept of clickbait. But when you follow up that clickbait with a verbal howling fest, that's when I say you fall into the category I'm referring to in my OP.

I’m not sure all the detractors are alt-right like in the Kelly Tran case. There seems to be both an ideological reaction from one camp of fans, and while another group feels there childhood is being wrecked because their head-canon has been violated.

13 minutes ago, Eoen said:

I’m not sure all the detractors are alt-right like in the Kelly Tran case. There seems to be both an ideological reaction from one camp of fans, and while another group feels there childhood is being wrecked because their head-canon has been violated.

Did I say all detractors are that? No, I've very clearly said, multiple times, that I'm referring to the portion that DOES fit the bill. I mean, how is that not clear in my wording? I don't understand the tendency in online communication, when someone very expressly states they are not saying that everyone is the category they are criticizing, that people follow up said posts with "not all *insert thing* are like that" responses. I know this!!! It's what the freaking disclaimer in the OP was for!! To forestall the need for people to post stuff that has nothing to do with what I said.

On 9/27/2018 at 1:14 PM, KungFuFerret said:

Now, first off, I'm not painting everyone with this brush. I'd like to think we live in a world where everything doesn't have to come with a disclaimer...but, this is the internet, and I'm talking about Star Wars, so that thought is a pipe dream. So, if you are just someone who doesn't like the new films, for whatever reason, but are NOT a flaming a$$hole about it, I'm not talking about you. This is directed at the type of person who can't even hear the mention of anything related to the new films, without having a spike in their blood pressure, and ranting in a toxic manner about SJWs and Kathleen Kennedy, and harassing people on twitter about it. Ok? Ok. Plus, this is a "mostly in jest" observation, but also how it does seem to me, as someone who grew up with the OT, but also thinks the NT is just fine.

The really toxic a$$hats about the new films, really feel like a kid, who walked into his room, and found his little sister playing with his Star Wars action figures, and is furious because she's having them do stuff that he doesn't want them doing. So he yells to his mom to "make her stop touching my things! She's not playing with them the right way!!"

That's it really, I know that's less than half the size of the disclaimer for it, but hey, sadly this is the world we live in. Anyway, carry on.

Pretty much what I’ve been saying, just without the metaphor.

They’re adults who are angry that they didn’t walk out of the theater with the same sense of wonder and astonishment they had when they first experienced Star Wars. Which is something that can never be recaptured.

5 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

I don't understand the tendency in online communication

Not understanding it doesn't make the phenomenon go away. Online communication is irrevocably tainted, and anyone using it must accept that any message will get distorted, misread, and ultimately fail to do what it intended. Also, seagulls are really annoying.

I think it's telling that the news of Kathleen Kennedy getting her contract extended for three more years has a great many of the whiny man-babies that KungFuFerret's initial post was centered on, they've all got their knickers in a twist.

It's darkly humorous while also being sad at just how they can't get past their self-entitlement and grasp that they simply aren't relevant to the franchise's overall success. Kathleen Kennedy has helped make Star Wars more accessible to a broader audience, and the overly verbal toxic twits simply can't accept that Star Wars no longer belongs exclusively to them (not that it ever did in the first place).

8 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I think it's telling that the news of Kathleen Kennedy getting her contract extended for three more years has a great many of the whiny man-babies that KungFuFerret's initial post was centered on, they've all got their knickers in a twist.

It's darkly humorous while also being sad at just how they can't get past their self-entitlement and grasp that they simply aren't relevant to the franchise's overall success. Kathleen Kennedy has helped make Star Wars more accessible to a broader audience, and the overly verbal toxic twits simply can't accept that Star Wars no longer belongs exclusively to them (not that it ever did in the first place).

BUT MUH EU-CENTRIC FAN THEORIES

/s

On 9/28/2018 at 3:36 PM, KungFuFerret said:

Sure, but there are also the kind of people who spam twitter to the point where Kelly Tran simply quits the service entirely because of the volume of toxic bile. And those two types of people sometimes are the same person. Again, I don't care about calm, reasoned critiques of the films. No film is perfect, including the OT, and discussing the pros and cons is fine. And I understand the concept of clickbait. But when you follow up that clickbait with a verbal howling fest, that's when I say you fall into the category I'm referring to in my OP.

As much as I dislike, not really hate I'll give them a spin over Christmas break, the new films, the Kelly Tran hate was vile and toxic - which I only found out about from my GM who watched Youtube stuff on his PS4! Correct me if I'm wrong, but did either Disney, Lucasfilm or any other actor from the current films come out and defend her? I haven't used Twatter in ages and avoid the hate/rant vids tbh as much as possible you click on one and that's all your feed is filled with.

Solo was enjoyable just seen on DVD, there were a few times I was disappointed (the build up for a shoot out ona trailer that never featured in the film,,,, oh well) but I'll give it another play before the year is out.

On 9/29/2018 at 5:16 AM, HappyDaze said:

Not understanding it doesn't make the phenomenon go away. Online communication is irrevocably tainted, and anyone using it must accept that any message will get distorted, misread, and ultimately fail to do what it intended. Also, seagulls are really annoying.

I've had a seagull swoop down and nick the the 'one-bite-taken' choccy donut out my hand!! B******!! Stop laughing at the back!!

15 minutes ago, ExpandingUniverse said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did either Disney, Lucasfilm or any other actor from the current films come out and defend her?

Yes, they did. Off the top of my head, Rian Johnson, Mark Hamill, and John Boyega. I believe LFL personnel such as Pablo Hidalgo and Andi Gutierrez, as well.

Cheers Nyt,,, that sorts that out

Yeah, there was nothing but support from Lucasfilm and her co-stars for Miss Tran, though some (such as Mark Hamill) were far more vocal simply due to having a larger internet presence than others.

And I've little doubt that if Carrie Fisher hadn't passed before the film's release, she would have had plenty of scathing things to say about the folks that were attacking Miss Tran.

I've got nothing against Tran (the actress), but Rose (the character) did nothing for me. Of course, considering that I thought most of the movie was utter crap, that's actually a complement. Still no reason for those feelings to spill beyond the piece though--I don't think badly of Boyega or the rest even if I think their characters were poorly served in TLJ.

On 9/27/2018 at 1:14 PM, KungFuFerret said:

That's it really, I know that's less than half the size of the disclaimer for it, but hey, sadly this is the world we live in.

It was the same with the prequels. It's the same with <insert music band here>. Dating myself, but I remember having this exact same conversation when Led Zeppelin IV came out, how some didn't like it, and "what's up with this 8 minute Stairway to Heaven song, it's so pretentious!" Radio stations didn't know what to do, the longest song to that point was Hey Jude, and that was the Beatles so they made allowances... Then Led Zeppelin 5 came out and "what's this? reggae? I hate it! Why can't it be more like LZ4?" It's no different with Radiohead from OK Computer to A Moon Shaped Pool.

Basically, fans suck. They want the same thing they know, but they want it to be different enough so they feel like they felt when they first fell in love.

2 hours ago, whafrog said:

Basically, fans suck.

Fan is short for fanatic. That right there tells you a lot about the issue with fandoms.

20 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Fan is short for fanatic. That right there tells you a lot about the issue with fandoms.

I'm also a guitar fan,,, literally fanatic. It got to the point where I would politley avoid a very good friend of mine as each time we met up the conversation ALWAYS turned towards guitars, guitar players, bands & amps etc.... which would really bore all our other mates and girlfriends... sad, but true... (rock fans will see the irony on the last bit )

So in quasi-related news...

http://collider.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-hate-explained/

Apparently not all of the vitriol for the film was generated by actual outraged viewers of the film.

It's also got some speculation as to why some of the non-bot opinions were what they were, but that part is conjecture at best.

1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

So in quasi-related news...

http://collider.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-hate-explained/

Apparently not all of the vitriol for the film was generated by actual outraged viewers of the film.

It's also got some speculation as to why some of the non-bot opinions were what they were, but that part is conjecture at best.

Sure, there's always a variable and margin of error in everything. As they say, only Siths deal in absolutes, and I always try to use terms and phrasing that imply a margin of error, and acknowledging a varying of opinion (not that many people actually comprehend that when reading it, and assume you are talking about EVERYONE,just look above in this very thread, where I specify that I wasn't talking about all detractors, and yet a few people still felt the need to tell me "not everyone who hates the films hate them for your reasons", even though that's not what I said, at all). But there is a level of genuine vitriol, I mean you can see it on this very forum from some of the posters, and I've heard it from the very mouths of some fans.