I've got a question about what exactly "at distance 1" of an obstacle means in regards to deploying Squadrons in Fighter Ambush. I understand "at distance 1" for a squadron to mean that any part of the base is at distance 1 of something else, e.g. another squadron, and is not the same as within distance 1. But how does this work with with an obstacle? Can a squadron deploy "at distance 1" of an obstacle as long one end of the distance 1 range band is touching the squadron's base and the other end is touching the obstacle? I.e. you could have a squadron part touching an obstacle this way (such as the Station) and even nearly fit inside the obstacle entirely?

Thanks

Yes. You can put squadrons on top of and obstacle. The station, for example, can fully fit three squadrons.

6 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Yes. You can put squadrons on top of and obstacle. The station, for example, can fully fit three squadrons.

Thanks. And that would count as "at distance 1"?

"At distance 1" presumably also means they can be further than "within distance 1" and also couldn't, for example, be entirely within the small asteroid as that would just be "within" but not "at"?

I'm not entirely sure how you measure "at" for obstacles in Vassal though ?

21 minutes ago, Zamalekite said:

Thanks. And that would count as "at distance 1"?

"At distance 1" presumably also means they can be further than "within distance 1" and also couldn't, for example, be entirely within the small asteroid as that would just be "within" but not "at"?

I'm not entirely sure how you measure "at" for obstacles in Vassal though ?

You have to take into account the deffinition of "At" in the RRG:

"At: If any portion of a hull zone, base, or token is inside a specified band, that component is at that band."

If a unit is "within" range 1, it will also be "at" range 1 as a portion of it's base (in this case all of it) is inside that band, but not vice versa

26 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

You have to take into account the deffinition of "At" in the RRG:

"At: If any portion of a hull zone, base, or token is inside a specified band, that component is at that band."

If a unit is "within" range 1, it will also be "at" range 1 as a portion of it's base (in this case all of it) is inside that band, but not vice versa

Thanks. I think I get how the "at" part applies to the squadron but what about the obstacle? Are we talking "at" distance 1 of the edge of the obstacle or of any part of the obstacle?

34 minutes ago, Zamalekite said:

Thanks. I think I get how the "at" part applies to the squadron but what about the obstacle? Are we talking "at" distance 1 of the edge of the obstacle or of any part of the obstacle?

Any part of the obstacle, with the edges as the limit

42 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Any part of the obstacle, with the edges as the limit

Even if we said the edge was the measure point, being on top of it is still easily measured to be less than distance one from the edge... you’re just measuring inside.

8 hours ago, Zamalekite said:

Thanks. And that would count as "at distance 1"?

"At distance 1" presumably also means they can be further than "within distance 1" and also couldn't, for example, be entirely within the small asteroid as that would just be "within" but not "at"?

I'm not entirely sure how you measure "at" for obstacles in Vassal though ?

In vassal?

On top of the obstacle oc, or any part of the squadron base must touch the black ring.

17 hours ago, Zamalekite said:

Thanks. I think I get how the "at" part applies to the squadron but what about the obstacle? Are we talking "at" distance 1 of the edge of the obstacle or of any part of the obstacle?

Both the squadron and the obstacle have any portion of them inside band 1? Yes? They are AT distance 1 of each other.

If we are talking about within , then I am with you. Where we meassure from?

I define : “The Area” is the obstacle token and all parts of the table that can be measured to be within distance 1 of it.

If you are “AT” the area, then ANY PORTION OF YOUR SQUAD is touching that area, from the barest sliver to the whole thing.

If you are “WITHIN” the area, then the ENTIRE BASE must be touching some portion of the area, no exceptions.

On 9/26/2018 at 5:26 PM, Drasnighta said:

I define : “The Area” is the obstacle token and all parts of the table that can be measured to be within distance 1 of it.

If you are “AT” the area, then ANY PORTION OF YOUR SQUAD is touching that area, from the barest sliver to the whole thing.

If you are “WITHIN” the area, then the ENTIRE BASE must be touching some portion of the area, no exceptions.

Thanks @Drasnighta and everyone else. So basically "AT" incorporates everything that would be "WITHIN" but also extends a bit further as long as any part, rather than the entirety of your base must within the range band?

I'm hoping that is the case as otherwise measuring AT becomes a real pain as some part of both objects that are being measured must be exactly at the distance 1 band. So in the screenshots below the X-Wing in the first image would be WITHIN and AT distance 1 of the station (as the station is wider than distance 1) but in the second image the X-Wing would be WITHIN but NOT also AT Distance 1. If that's the correct interpretation of the rule then confusing as ****!

Err...in both cases the squadron is at distance 1 of the objective token, if that's what you're looking for.

1 hour ago, Green Knight said:

Err...in both cases the squadron is at distance 1 of the objective token, if that's what you're looking for.

I just put the objective token there to show distance 1 of the edge of the station. I'm talking about how AT is considered in relation to the station and the X-wing.

Quote

So basically "AT" incorporates everything that would be "WITHIN" but also extends a bit further as long as any part, rather than the entirety, of your base must within the range band?

If that's the case then great, nice and simple. It's just different to what I've been told in a couple of games I've played by my (more experienced) opponents.

I literally don’t get what the confusion is and what the issue is. “At” and “Within” are explicitly defined in the rule book and I don’t see how it leaves room for mistaking...

4 hours ago, Zamalekite said:

Thanks @Drasnighta and everyone else. So basically "AT" incorporates everything that would be "WITHIN" but also extends a bit further as long as any part, rather than the entirety of your base must within the range band?

I'm hoping that is the case as otherwise measuring AT becomes a real pain as some part of both objects that are being measured must be exactly at the distance 1 band. So in the screenshots below the X-Wing in the first image would be WITHIN and AT distance 1 of the station (as the station is wider than distance 1) but in the second image the X-Wing would be WITHIN but NOT also AT Distance 1. If that's the correct interpretation of the rule then confusing as ****!

Your opponents have misguided you, but probably unintentionally. I also used to assume "at" meant something other than what the rules actually say.

In both screenshots, the X-Wing is at distance 1 of the station, for reasons mentioned already.

RRG:

At : If any portion of a hull zone, base, or token is inside a specified band, that component is at that band.

Within : If the entirety of a base or token is inside a specified band, that component is within that band.

Thanks everyone. I'll shove this thread in the face of anyone who brings it up again. If you Google "fighter ambush" "at distance 1" this thread now comes top so all cleared up