Piggybacking off the topic in @Sarge144 ‘s thread about his wonderful LoS calculator, is this a valid LoS?

ive accepted that you can see “around” the blocking terrain line, but I can’t find specifically if the bottom line can validly go through the corner with the blocking line and the blocking figure. Inherently, I would think no, but I can’t find an example.

EDIT: Here's the thread with that great tool if anyone hasn't seen it:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/282531-line-of-sight-calculator-thread/

heh. actually it is. You only need to See the corners not the whole edge. w as for figure next to blocking terrain check the third bullets in Line of sight rrg entry (cant paste it on my Phone :(). it is allowed

wait a minute. No. You cannot draw LoS through a corner where blocking terrain and figure meet.

The shields are figures, right?

(You can draw LoS to the top right corner, but not to the others.)

2 minutes ago, a1bert said:

wait a minute. No. You cannot draw LoS through a corner where blocking terrain and figure meet.

The shields are figures, right?

yeah, the blocking object is meant to represent a figure

8 minutes ago, a1bert said:

wait a minute. No. You cannot draw LoS through a corner where blocking terrain and figure meet.

The shields are figures, right?

(You can draw LoS to the top right corner, but not to the others.)

You cant draw los through intersection of Walls and blocking terrain, but You can draw them through intersections of figures and blocking terrain p. 16 rrg Line of sight 3rd bullet, but cant paste it yet. At least i understand it that way

6 minutes ago, Szycha said:

You cant draw los through interes tion of Walls and blocking terrain, but You can draw them through intetsoections od figures and blocking terrain p. 16 rrg Line of sight 3rd bullet, but cant paste it yet. At least i understand it that way

The RRG only shows how you can draw LoS out of such a corner, not through such a corner.

• Line of sight can be traced from the corner of a figure and any combination of another figure (17), wall, or blocking terrain.

(So, the Line of Sight entry is inconsistent with the line of sight examples.)

I believe Szycha is referring to the third bullet point down in that section

• Line of sight cannot be traced through a corner where any
combination of walls and blocking terrain intersect. It can be
traced THROUGH the combination of one figure and a diagonally
positioned wall, blocking terrain, or other figure.

I totally do. This Los looks really crazy, but it seems, that it's correct...

The difference comes up practically never, but I asked about the wording anyway - or rather made it known in case I get a confirmation of the intent.

I dont get your answer So you think, that its legal or not?

1 minute ago, Szycha said:

I dont get your answer So you think, that its legal or not?

Line of Sight entry uses "through", while Line of Sight Examples use "from".

I personally think the intent is from/to, and not through. So, it would be no for campaign (RAI), and maybe for skirmish (RAW).

I wouldn't pay that much attention to examples, because they are examples and not rullings (especially when You consider, that according to RRG "MOST of the situations are shown in detail" the reason for not including this one is, that it's CRAZY and showing it to new players would mess their minds instead of clearing the rulling, which is conuterproductive for the whole examples idea ) But... Who knows

There are a few of a cases where disallowing "through" still creates a little strange line of sight. The case in the OP in the thread and this kind of two-blocking-edge case can be created with tiles: TS01B JR02A JR10A JR05B JR09B HotE04A ToL03A/B.

IMO in this case you draw LoS Through a blocking terrain (the horizontal one), so no LoS.

12 minutes ago, Szycha said:

IMO in this case you draw LoS Through a blocking terrain, so no LoS.

Where does the LoS go through blocking terrain?

• Line of sight can be traced parallel along a wall (8), blocking terrain space (9), or door.

• Colored borders (in combination with walls) that do not fully encompass a space or group of spaces are terrain edges. The terrain rules are only applied to the colored edge of this space and not the space itself.

How about

The horizonytal one, that shares edge with a figure

Sometimes blocking terrain is only on one edge of a space. Figures cannot move through or be pushed through this edge. Large figures cannot move onto, be pushed through, or be placed on a blocking edge unless they have a special ability that allows this, such as Massive or Mobile.

While "edge" blocking terrain entry doesnt clearly state, that you can't draw los through it, the LoS entry does.

For me the distinction between this two types of blocking terrain is further noted in mobile entry, where you can draw LoS to a mobile figure on blocking terrain, but IMO it only aplies to a WHOLE blocking terrain, and not EDGE blocking terrain.

**** it.. We went deeeep

edited Horizontal one. that shares the edge with a figure

I already quoted that blocking edge is blocking terrain between spaces. I'm not drawing line of sight through those edges.If you are saying the line of sight lines are going through blocking terrain (edge), show me where. I don't even need to draw parallel to them.

(No, figures do not occupy blocking terrain in this, so that rules doesn't apply, and doesn't need to. Line of sight is not drawn into or through blocking terrain.)

IMO drawing Los to a figures corners, that are connected by blocking edge is drawin los throught a blocking terrain. Other interpetation of this would lead to a situation, where single edge, single space blocking terrain provides no cover at all.

Also note, that the main problem of your example isn,t blocking Los by intersections but rather drawing Los to figures behind blocking terrain.

2 hours ago, Szycha said:

heh. actually it is. You only need to See the corners not the whole edge. w as for figure next to blocking terrain check the third bullets in Line of sight rrg entry (cant paste it on my Phone :(). it is allowed

23 minutes ago, Szycha said:

IMO drawing Los to a figures corners, that are connected by blocking edge is drawin los throught a blocking terrain.

There is no such rule. Only the LoS lines to the corners matter. And "Glancing" corners - whether door, wall, figure, blocking terrain, or energy shield - is perfectly legal when drawing line of sight.

23 minutes ago, Szycha said:

Other interpetation of this would lead to a situation, that single edge, single space blocking terrain provides no cover at all.

If they are combined with walls, there is cover, and if the figure is one space away from the edge. Note that there is no single-blocking-terrain edges in the game, and the maps avoid single-edge walls.

Quote

Also note, that the main problem of your example isn,t blocking Los by intersections but rather drawing Los to figures behind blocking terrain.

What is your definition of "behind"? The example in the OP seems such a case as well, so it sounds like you've changed your mind that it shouldn't be allowed.

I didn't change my mind. Just can't find the proper words to express it clearly

As for no single blocking edges, I checked it in between and you are right about it.

As for seeing the whole edge I meant that, You dont have to see the whole edge (beacause rules clearly state, that you only need to see adjacenet corners) as long as it's not covered by blocking terrain (which blocks LoS). The way I understand it is, if figure shares whole edge with blocking terrain, the imaginary line goes through it before it gets to a figure, so it's blocked.

As for saying, that the main problem of your example isn't intersection, but the blocking edge I meant, that if you move Leia one space to the left she would still be able to see two adjacent corners even if the other figure weren't standing there (what is it btw? some Campaign companion?) and I guess, we both agree that this LoS wouldn't be legal.

Just to be clear. I am not entirely sure, that LoS Fightwookies shown is OK, but it SEEMS like it.

EDIT. As for shooting into Energy Shield it is clearly stated in HoTE rules, that it is allowed, so I think it may imply, that normally, this kind of "blocking LoS" edge (like blocking edge or wall) disallows it.

14 hours ago, Szycha said:

The way I understand it is, if figure shares whole edge with blocking terrain, the imaginary line goes through it before it gets to a figure, so it's blocked.

You do not draw line of sight to a figure, you draw line of sight to two adjacent corners of the space the figure (or object) occupies. There is no rule (yet) that would say anything about the edge between the corners used for drawing line of sight, however strange situations that produces. Both lines are valid line of sight lines, and they are to adjacent corners of the space, so the space is in line of sight, and the figure/object occupying the space is in line of sight.

Edit: It's a literal corner case.

yeah, ofc I meant corner. No point in arguing about it any longer, because we both made our points. Your example just seems off (actually way more then the original one :P) to me, but maybe it's right .

On 9/25/2018 at 9:08 PM, a1bert said:

Line of Sight entry uses "through", while Line of Sight Examples use "from".

Btw, Todd confirmed the intent being that the line of sight line works like shown and worded in the line of sight examples. I.e. you can draw line of sight (to and) from a corner where a figure and wall, door, blocking terrain (space or edge), or energy shield intersect, but not through it.

(My example is also currently valid. Can't say about future.)

20 hours ago, a1bert said:

Btw, Todd confirmed the intent being that the line of sight line works like shown and worded in the line of sight examples. I.e. you can draw line of sight (to and) from a corner where a figure and wall, door, blocking terrain (space or edge), or energy shield intersect, but not through it.

(My example is also currently valid. Can't say about future.)

So, RaI for campaign and RaW for skirmish? (Pending a future clarification in the next faq)