Pretty sure Qi'ra should read:
While you move and engage , you ignore obstacles that you are locking.
Would have been much clearer since when a ship engages it may perform an attack. I do think Qi'ra will let you attack while overlapping the obstacle her ship has locked but FFG needs to clarify this or we'll have this argument forever.
They specifically changed wording on things to make things clearer but still couldn't word it correctly on some cards.
15 hours ago, Kandiak said:I’m also going to say that this verbiage in the rules clarification seems to imply that a ship can attack because the effects of overlapping and moving through only differ in the case of an asteroid and overlapping said asteroid where the effect would be that a ship cannot attack. So because overlapping or moving are cited here, while not explicit, says to me that the intention is such that a ship can indeed attack while overlapping an asteroid.
If you disagree I would be curious to ask what other differences apply between overlapping and moving through an obstacle such that the two would need to be separated out?
“ A ship that is “ignoring obstacles” does not apply the effects of overlapping or moving through them. ”
I understand the wording and ruling is not crystal here. But I think the clarification has shown clear intent. I filed a request for clarification with FFG to get it written explicitly. But in the interim the consensus around the two shops I play at is that you can attack both because of the clarification and also the attack phase being called out in Qi’ra’s wording highlight that phase.
The verbiage is really important which is why you need to stop using the wrong terms.
Overlapping is only in them movement phase, she is not affected by this.
She cannot attack because she's at range 0 of an Asteroid.
These are 2 totally different and effectively unrelated rules, you're conflating the 2 which is why you're finding confusion in it.
Again words are important, there is no attack phase in the game, her ability doesn't work in the engagement phase. You can have all the consensus you want in your shops that she can attack in the attack phase but then you'rep laying some homebrew rules where there's an attack phase in this game.
On 10/5/2018 at 2:52 AM, eRADicator67 said:Pretty sure Qi'ra should read:
While you move and engage , you ignore obstacles that you are locking.
Would have been much clearer since when a ship engages it may perform an attack. I do think Qi'ra will let you attack while overlapping the obstacle her ship has locked but FFG needs to clarify this or we'll have this argument forever.
They specifically changed wording on things to make things clearer but still couldn't word it correctly on some cards.
They clearly answered about her ignore obstacle during an attack. If they tought there was confusion about her ability to attack on asteroid they would have said so.
She is worded "while attacking" not "while engaging". People have to stop taking their dreams for reality. As much as they want her to be able to attack, she can't. She's at range 0 of an obstacle, so she can't enter the while attacking state.
And people have to stop using v1 thinking, yes in v1, preventing attack on an asteroid was consequence of an overlap. It is not the case anymore. It is being linked to being at range 0 of said asteroid...
Edited by muribundi
Ok
On 10/5/2018 at 1:23 PM, muribundi said:They clearly answered about her ignore obstacle during an attack. If they tought there was confusion about her ability to attack on asteroid they would have said so.
She is worded "while attacking" not "while engaging". People have to stop taking their dreams for reality. As much as they want her to ba able to attack, she can't. She's at range 0 of an obstacle, so she can't enter the while attacking state.
And people have to stop using v1 thinking, yes in v1, preventing attack on an asteroid was consequence of an overlap. It is not the case anymore. It is being linked to being at range 0 of said asteroid...
Ain't my dream. I don't play Qi'ra. I play hard mode! xD
For all those still questioning the interaction between Qi'ra, Trickshot, Han and others, there was an official ruling posted a few weeks back.
Q: What does “ignores obstacles” mean? Do Han Solo [Pilot, Customized YT-1300] and Qi’ra [Crew] work together? What about Dash Rendar [YT-2400] and Outrider [Title]?
A: When an effect says a ship “ignores obstacles,” it means that ship “ignores the effects of obstacles.” A ship that is “ignoring obstacles” does not apply the effects of overlapping or moving through them. When that ship performs an attack that is obstructed by an obstacle it ignores the effects of the obstruction, so the defender does not roll 1 additional defense die being obstructed by the obstacles the attacker is ignoring.
However, the obstacles are still treated as being present for effects that check for their presence or absence. Additionally, an attack is obstructed by an obstacle even while the effects of the obstacle are ignored. This applies to cards such as Outrider , Han Solo [Pilot, Customized YT-1300], and Trick Shot (Talent).
Additionally, other ships do not ignore the obstacle when resolving effects that interact with a ship that is ignoring obstacles. For instance, while a ship that is ignoring obstacles defends, if the attack is obstructed, it still rolls 1 additional defense die because the attacker is not ignoring the effects of obstacles.
12 minutes ago, nj3478 said:For all those still questioning the interaction between Qi'ra, Trickshot, Han and others, there was an official ruling posted a few weeks back.
Q: What does “ignores obstacles” mean? Do Han Solo [Pilot, Customized YT-1300] and Qi’ra [Crew] work together? What about Dash Rendar [YT-2400] and Outrider [Title]?
A: When an effect says a ship “ignores obstacles,” it means that ship “ignores the effects of obstacles.” A ship that is “ignoring obstacles” does not apply the effects of overlapping or moving through them. When that ship performs an attack that is obstructed by an obstacle it ignores the effects of the obstruction, so the defender does not roll 1 additional defense die being obstructed by the obstacles the attacker is ignoring.
However, the obstacles are still treated as being present for effects that check for their presence or absence. Additionally, an attack is obstructed by an obstacle even while the effects of the obstacle are ignored. This applies to cards such as Outrider , Han Solo [Pilot, Customized YT-1300], and Trick Shot (Talent).
Additionally, other ships do not ignore the obstacle when resolving effects that interact with a ship that is ignoring obstacles. For instance, while a ship that is ignoring obstacles defends, if the attack is obstructed, it still rolls 1 additional defense die because the attacker is not ignoring the effects of obstacles.
That ruling has come up in this thread already. It doesn't answer the question, because the question is about timing not about effect. There's no doubt that if Qi'ra could ignore the rock to make an attack, that she would. The question is whether or not she's triggered at all.
So at our store championship today, it was confirmed that you CAN shoot while on a rock with Qi'ra!!
8 hours ago, nj1978 said:So at our store championship today, it was confirmed that you CAN shoot while on a rock with Qi'ra!!
Can you explain what you mean by confirmed? Did your local judge rule that way or is your store frequented by FFG's design team?
57 minutes ago, MockingBird ME said:Can you explain what you mean by confirmed? Did your local judge rule that way or is your store frequented by FFG's design team?
confirmed by both the tournament judge as well as the person who won the CapaCup last weekend.
Until any other info from FFG, that's the ruling in the NYC/NJ tournaments.
Edited by nj1978Please correct me if I've missed a statement from ffg somewhere but I don't have a concept that non-FFG-staff tournament judges are authoritative for rulings outside of the specific event. I know we've had local judges be wrong before.
1 hour ago, MockingBird ME said:Please correct me if I've missed a statement from ffg somewhere but I don't have a concept that non-FFG-staff tournament judges are authoritative for rulings outside of the specific event. I know we've had local judges be wrong before.
as stated, until there is any further info from FFG, that's how we are all playing it in all our tournaments (different judges at every event).
PAX is coming up soon, so maybe some further info will be released. Until then, Qi'ra lets you shoot on a rock ?
I'm with @MockingBird ME on this one. Non-FFG judges aren't authoritative outside their own specific tournaments. Each store, friend group, etc is welcome to interpret rules as they see fit but, at the end of the day, the only "official" rules come from FFG.
In my opinion, RAW here is really, really clear. Until FFG says otherwise, Qi'ra definitely doesn't let you shoot on a rock. … unless you happen to be in a tournament when the judge decides otherwise, for some reason.
(And this, FFG, is why we need you to be better at writing your rules!)
48 minutes ago, nj1978 said:Until then , Qi'ra lets you shoot on a rock ?
There's a big difference between saying she absolutely works this way and saying that's how you're going to play it. Please don't confuse the two as it will make it that much more confusing for many players if/when FFG gives an authoritative ruling.
yeah.... While I agree with that ruling, that is quite far from a confirmation.
Sorry to necro this thread, but I got in a disagreement about whether Q'ira allows a ship to attack while overlapping an asteroid.
Has anything changed in the past few weeks that has affected this ruling? Are several TOs going with yes, it is allowed?
I'm not aware of any FFG ruling on this.
Same goes for this one about 'spending' shields - https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/284505-escape-pod-and-damage-to-landos-falcon/
I would love flying Lando Scum Falcon with some FFG rules clarification behind it. For now its flying him in casual play and agree beforehand with friend on how we go about it.
A ship that is “ignoring obstacles” does not apply the effects of overlapping or moving through them .
We already have this?
What more is needed?
most players i've met and discussed it with think that it's qi'ra allows you to attack when you're on an asteroid you have locked, including some TOs. it's not strictly RAW, though. ffg still hasn't clarified.
the argument goes that since overlapping asteroids don't let you perform attacks, you never get to the "perform attacks..." part of qi'ras text.
i don't agree, but i will admit that it's not very well worded.
9 hours ago, meffo said:most players i've met and discussed it with think that it's qi'ra allows you to attack when you're on an asteroid you have locked, including some TOs. it's not strictly RAW, though. ffg still hasn't clarified.
the argument goes that since overlapping asteroids don't let you perform attacks, you never get to the "perform attacks..." part of qi'ras text.
i don't agree, but i will admit that it's not very well worded.
Qi'ra is a card ability, which easily trumps the rules, so still no problem.
10 hours ago, Green Knight said:Qi'ra is a card ability, which easily trumps the rules, so still no problem.
i 100% agree, still some people don't. ignoring obstacles that you're locking has other game effects than letting you attack while you overlap them, as in attacking through an obstacle that you are locking would not let the defender roll one additional green dice.
On 12/16/2018 at 12:50 AM, Green Knight said:Qi'ra is a card ability, which easily trumps the rules, so still no problem.
She definitely trumps the rules when she triggers, nobody is arguing that she doesn't. The question is whether or not she triggers since she only triggers while performing attacks, and you cannot perform attacks while overlapping an obstacle. If you can't perform an attack, then you can't trigger her ability which would allow you to perform an attack. It's a very tight question of timing, but there is a fair argument on both sides of the issue. Until FFG releases a ruling, it will be up to each person, and TO's, interpretation.
At all our local store events since September (throughout NJ/NYC), the rulings have been stated that Qi'ra does allow you to shoot while landing on an asteroid.
We continue to play with this ruling until FFG provides further clarification.
While you move you ignore asteroid => there is no asteroid = there is no skiping of any steps.
I just found a good example in game. Part of me doesn't even want to bring it up, since some folks will probably now start insisting that Major Rhymer doesn't work. 🙄
Extending the "Qi'ra doesn't work" argument, if this is the case than Rhymer cannot function. He'd be out of range with the relevant Torpedoes or Missiles, and couldn't begin the attack, so couldn't get to "while attacking."
But Rhymer clearly functions, so the above has to be wrong.
For Rhymer to function, determining legal targets (as well as legal attackers, for that matter) must be part of the entire process of "While Attacking."