43 minutes ago, ISD Avenger said:

The ground troops in the Solo movie don’t exactly seem like typical space nazis, but normal people who are stuck in their job.

Plenty of imperial stories to tell.

But how many of them can be told without glorifying the Empire?

Thats my problem...

18 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

But how many of them can be told without glorifying the Empire?

Thats my problem...

I dunno. As many as you want. It is not like that wouldn't have been done before.

It frustrates me that folks refer to the pre imperial days as lawless, chaotic, Wild West etc. We know from the movies that the Jedi kept the peace for a thousand years. The Republic worked well until the Senator was made Chancellor and we later discover that that same guy was the one who started the whole thing. Who would have thought one crazy old man could disrupt the global - er - Galactic order.

And then Jar Jar made everything worse.

For those who want to know the real story, check out darthsanddroids.net

28 minutes ago, LTD said:

It frustrates me that folks refer to the pre imperial days as lawless, chaotic, Wild West etc. We know from the movies that the Jedi kept the peace for a thousand years. The Republic worked well until the Senator was made Chancellor and we later discover that that same guy was the one who started the whole thing. Who would have thought one crazy old man could disrupt the global - er - Galactic order.

And then Jar Jar made everything worse.

For those who want to know the real story, check out darthsanddroids.net

It couldn't be just Palpatine by his own. He directed the plot but there must be discontent before to feed it and start a war.

There were those who fight for the Republic, those who fight for what they think was fair and those who just want to take advantage for the conflict to achieve their own agenda.

It is not like Palpatine said "let's start a war" and so be done.

Edit: sorry I didn't teach my autocorrector the name of our lovely Emperor.

10 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Allegiance.

You are a scholar among wookies.

6 hours ago, Bakura83 said:

In a similar way to how the Unsullied were portrayed in Game of Thrones. And yes you are absolutely correct in your description of Imperial “de-humanisation” protocol, but human spirit is pretty hard to erase, you will always find people bending or braking the rules even in highly-structured totalitarian organisations. You could definitely tell a compelling story about or within that setting.

Star Wars’ problem in this regard, for me, is that the OT was very much on-the-nose allegory, and when you try to make allegory “realistic” it rarely works. The Empire isn’t supposed to accurately represent the real-world pros and cons of a lived-in totalitarian regime.

If you were going to give things a more realistic spin, it’s not hard at all to bring out the benefits of the Empire over it’s alternatives. Would you rather live in a an grey, amoral wild west where the government is too weak or corrupt to actually protect the weak from the predatory strong, or in a (too) black and white regime where safety is given as a reward for compliance?

The answer is different from person to person, but it’s not hard at all to see why people would prefer the Empire to the Old (or New) Republic.

All right, but other than the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health, what has the Empire ever done for us?

Enslaved a bunch of Wookiees, that's what

56 minutes ago, geek19 said:

All right, but other than the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health, what has the Empire ever done for us?

Enslaved a bunch of Wookiees, that's what

[Off to watch the film again, thanks Geek lol]

4 hours ago, LTD said:

It frustrates me that folks refer to the pre imperial days as lawless, chaotic, Wild West etc. We know from the movies that the Jedi kept the peace for a thousand years. The Republic worked well until the Senator was made Chancellor and we later discover that that same guy was the one who started the whole thing. Who would have thought one crazy old man could disrupt the global - er - Galactic order.

And then Jar Jar made everything worse.

For those who want to know the real story, check out darthsanddroids.net

It was a lawless galaxy as soon as you left the Mid Rim in the Old Republic days. Hutt Space was a giant crime network that wasn't really restrained by the Jedi or Judicial Forces. Corporations like the Trade Federation had standing militaries, and used them against innocent worlds freely in the Outer Rim.

The Banking Clan had these to deal with people who failed to pay back their debts.

So although the Emperor is evil at least he put a stop to aggressive dept collectors. ?

6 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

But how many of them can be told without glorifying the Empire?

Thats my problem...

Have the villains not be from the mainstream Rebel Alliance like Saw Gerrera's Partisans, who tortured and killed civilians in their fight against the Empire, or Separatist Holdouts in the early years of the Empire.

I think that the upcoming Boba Fett movie will be a test of whether or not audiences latch on to a bad guy being a protagonist.

13 hours ago, Ling27 said:

I remember reading some storm trooper team that fled the empire after killing an officer who told them to kill some civilian and then mara jade was sent after them but ultimately let them go do their thing as they went around doing anti-imperial stuff...

Dont remember the name of the book.

That is the plot of Warriors of Heaven and Earth, a good Chinese film where a samurai working for China's Emperor is chasing them then helps them get a caravan to safety. "Sometimes not killing is a crime."

I've been thinking of an Howlrunner/Obsidian Squadron fan fic inspired by the movies Battle of Britain and Torra,Torra,Torra. Especially the scene in Battle of Britain with so many empty seats in the Luftwaffe mess.

Recently watching Battlefield: Vietnam on YouTube I can see how inflexible US forces inspired the Imperial troops.

20 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

Have the villains not be from the mainstream Rebel Alliance like Saw Gerrera's Partisans, who tortured and killed civilians in their fight against the Empire, or Separatist Holdouts in the early years of the Empire.

I think that the upcoming Boba Fett movie will be a test of whether or not audiences latch on to a bad guy being a protagonist.

That is the plot of the novel Battlefront II Inferno Squad

7 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

But how many of them can be told without glorifying the Empire?

Thats my problem...

Did episode 3 glorify the Empire?

There is plenty of space for a imperial perspective movie in the lore that could add depth to the franchise, remember there is still 11 yes ELEVEN other movies to remind people they are space Nazi's (well only 9 of them have imperial stuff in them)

5 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:

Did episode 3 glorify the Empire?

There is plenty of space for a imperial perspective movie in the lore that could add depth to the franchise, remember there is still 11 yes ELEVEN other movies to remind people they are space Nazi's (well only 9 of them have imperial stuff in them)

Oh yeah, Star Wars has always been about depth and nuance. Definitely that.

7 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Oh yeah, Star Wars has always been about depth.

I don't know, that reactor core is pretty deep.

2 hours ago, geek19 said:

All right, but other than the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health, what has the Empire ever done for us?

Enslaved a bunch of Wookiees, that's what

And I thank the Emperor everyday of my life!

Cannot forget how the public transport smell when those beast walked around.

14 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

And I thank the Emperor everyday of my life!

Cannot forget how the public transport smell when those beast walked around.

Don't forget how dangerous casinos were when Wookiees were allowed in... so many torn off arms.

By Grapthars hammer the wookies shall be avenged

23 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Evil regimes are built by a handful of men like Palpatine and Tarkin... and countless normal people. I’m honestly a little surprised by how many people equate the draconian policies, corruption and outright atrocities of the Empire with “therefore, everyone in it is evil” or “therefore, we can’t portray any good in it whatsoever.” What I like about this franchise is the moral ambiguity. Starting in the Tantive IV boarding scene, we see a stormtrooper checking a fallen comrade for signs of life. Suddenly, we know there are humans under the armor. RoTJ had a deleted scene of Jerjerrod’s shock and uncertainty when ordered to destroy the moon of Endor. What if Finn weren’t on his very first mission when he deserted, but had already committed heinous actions? Would he be a monster? What of the people like Finn who chose to stay, or never found the courage or opportunity to leave? Point-blank: I’m sick of a beleaguered group of Rebels doing the right thing. That’s morally a fairly easy choice when you’ve had your home and/or family taken from you like Cassian, Luke, Jyn, Leia, Baze, Chirrut, Chewbacca, and Hera have (note the two members of the R1 crew excluded - ex-Imperials.) It would so much more interesting to see a character trying to actually avoid the wrong decisions.

I totally understand what you are saying. And I think in the pro-rebel movies that we have, little signs of insurrection inside the Empire makes for good story telling.

The problem is that if you start following any pro-Imperial story line, you risk muddying the waters. Suddenly people are talking about how not everyone in the Empire is bad, and even some of the troops are good guys just following orders. This isn't something Disney, or Lucas Arts ever wants to touch. They want a clearly defined good and evil. There isn't a lot of moral ambiguity in the series as is, and they aren't looking to dig too deep. Once you muddy those waters too much you simply have two sides in a war that are equivalent.

Once you start getting into that kind of material, you end up getting very political very quickly, and in some very touchy ways. Lets take a look at the core worlds. Population is mostly human, times are good, work is plentiful, crime is low, conflict is basically non-existent there. You could argue that the Imperial existence has made life in the core worlds WAY better. But you'd also have to consider the reasons behind this. Slavery of non-human races is common and gives you that life style. These humans accept and support the Empire because they prosper from the privilege they were born into. They were born human, on a core world, and life is good. They know of the slavery. They know of the draconian tactics. They know how the Empire enforces this peace and civility in the core worlds. They accept it because it benefits them. While there is no doubt interesting story telling available here. Things like the Pianist or Valkyrie for instance. People opposing this for instance...I think those would be a little too dark, and a little too deep for a Disney film.

It's not that there isn't story telling options that could be good and interesting, it's that it muddies the waters in ways that Disney simply doesn't want to.

11 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

But how many of them can be told without glorifying the Empire?

Thats my problem...

do any of the following glorify nazi Germany ( and allies) or Soviet Russia?:

6 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

Once you start getting into that kind of material, you end up getting very political very quickly, and in some very touchy ways.

and here is a prime example of why fascism is making such a comeback.

"fascists are EVIL and I am NOT EVIL therefore I am not fascist."

1 hour ago, kmanweiss said:

I totally understand what you are saying. And I think in the pro-rebel movies that we have, little signs of insurrection inside the Empire makes for good story telling.

The problem is that if you start following any pro-Imperial story line, you risk muddying the waters. Suddenly people are talking about how not everyone in the Empire is bad, and even some of the troops are good guys just following orders. This isn't something Disney, or Lucas Arts ever wants to touch. They want a clearly defined good and evil. There isn't a lot of moral ambiguity in the series as is, and they aren't looking to dig too deep. Once you muddy those waters too much you simply have two sides in a war that are equivalent.

Once you start getting into that kind of material, you end up getting very political very quickly, and in some very touchy ways. Lets take a look at the core worlds. Population is mostly human, times are good, work is plentiful, crime is low, conflict is basically non-existent there. You could argue that the Imperial existence has made life in the core worlds WAY better. But you'd also have to consider the reasons behind this. Slavery of non-human races is common and gives you that life style. These humans accept and support the Empire because they prosper from the privilege they were born into. They were born human, on a core world, and life is good. They know of the slavery. They know of the draconian tactics. They know how the Empire enforces this peace and civility in the core worlds. They accept it because it benefits them. While there is no doubt interesting story telling available here. Things like the Pianist or Valkyrie for instance. People opposing this for instance...I think those would be a little too dark, and a little too deep for a Disney film.

It's not that there isn't story telling options that could be good and interesting, it's that it muddies the waters in ways that Disney simply doesn't want to.

I'd say R1, Solo and TFA already touch on it more than any previous releases. It's one of the things I can appreciate about Disney's SW films; they're increasingly exploring new angles on the Empire without for a moment making us think it's "good" or "misunderstood." There's a very real art to that. I agree on the importance of not glorifying the Empire, and it's one of the limited things I think Disney could do well. As to the Imperial populace knowing their government's tactics: no, for the most part I don't think they do. Jehda was destroyed in a "mining disaster." The Death Star is the "Imperial Planetary Ore Extractor." I can't speak for other countries, but as an American we have a thousand different little evils under our system, most of which we never see. And you might learn of one and become angry, and go "why do we have troops there?" or "why isn't our government protecting that group of citizens," but at the end of the day most people do nothing, because you're divorced from it, you have other concerns, or you can't even begin to make an impact on one issue. And that's how I picture life in the core worlds, too... for those Imperial citizens who care to search for accurate news (since HNN is Imperial-controlled.) Would Disney ever emphasize this? Heck no. But they could absolutely show a character's comfortable existence in the core, followed by their shock when exposed to the mid or outer rim. The implications are interesting without a clear political message, and it's really just the reverse of seeing Canto Bight.

Edit: Or you could have someone born on a poor rim world who joins the military to escape, doesn't get kicked out for being a scruffy-looking nerf herder, glimpses the opulence of the core, and is horrified when they start oppressing worlds just like the one they grew up on.

Make a movie about the bureaucrat who takes papers off Palpatine’s desk so he can’t sign them.

12 minutes ago, LTD said:

Make a movie about the bureaucrat who takes papers off Palpatine’s desk so he can’t sign them.

Here's the question, does Palpatine sign papers?

Obviosly. Why would ha have a clerk that hands him the papers?

Duh.

This isn’t Star Trek. Paper exists.