With built in ATC and the ability to use one of the 3 regenerating Force Charges, he still has the ability to do 2 actions per turn. With that being said there seems to be many opinions on what Force upgrade is best for him. There are 4, although with Vader’s built in need for Fire Control System, Instinctive Aim seems very useless. That leaves 3.

Supernatural Reflexes

Sense

Heighten Perception

Which upgrade do you think fits the best for him, and why?

in my opinion, currently I believe Heighten Perception is the best option. It allows Vader to engage at I7, and with early builds leaning towards at least one ace being in each build being I7 is very important. Currently there are 10 I6 pilots.

Han Solo (Scum/Rebel) - Fenn Rau (Scum/Rebel) - Wedge Antilles - Poe Dameron - Dengar - Midnight - Soontir Fel.

With the addition of more X-Wings on the table Wedge and Han Solo are seeing more gameplay and allowing Vader the opportunity to engage on his terms I believe is more important than (actual) limited repositioning options Supernatural Reflexes allows.

Supernatural or nothing.

4 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

in my opinion, currently I believe Heighten Perception is the best option. It allows Vader to engage at I7, and with early builds leaning towards at least one ace being in each build being I7 is very important. Currently there are 10 I6 pilots. 

When the memes are no longer just dreams

10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Supernatural or nothing.

Why?

First, you must use one of your 3 Force Charges

2. If you boost you take damage, if you barrel roll you can do that action again.

So if you do either you only have two remaining options lock (with is needed in the initial joust) for FCS to kick in. Or focus which is a linked action which would in my opinion lead to a focus which can’t be chosen because it a linked action to a red barrel roll effectively which is not allowed because you already barrel rolled pre-maneuver. And you can’t do the same action twice.

7 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

Why?

First, you must use one of your 3 Force Charges

2. If you boost you take damage, if you barrel roll you can do that action again.

So if you do either you only have two remaining options lock (with is needed in the initial joust) for FCS to kick in. Or focus which is a linked action which would in my opinion lead to a focus which can’t be chosen because it a linked action to a red barrel roll effectively which is not allowed because you already barrel rolled pre-maneuver. And you can’t do the same action twice.

You aren't required to link actions. You can always choose to only do the first action of a linked pair. Vader can absolutely focus without also barrel rolling, or focus if he has already barrel rolled previously in the round.

Yes, please take Heightened perception. I Guarantee your shooting at Int. 7 Is worth it.

The ability to reposition before you execute your maneuver is extremely potent. It's what made Advanced Sensors PTL Kylo nuts (and will make him nuts again in between autothrusters and SR)

It makes it much harder to be blocked or be forced into obstacles. Vader without actions is a still a sad Vader.

Yes, boosting with Vader will cost damage, but it allows him to completely change his vector and potentially evade a nasty kill box. Better that one damage than getting outright nuked if your opponent has laid the perfect trap.

11 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

You aren't required to link actions. You can always choose to only do the first action of a linked pair. Vader can absolutely focus without also barrel rolling, or focus if he has already barrel rolled previously in the round.

Then I believe Supernatural Reflexes needs to be a 20 point card. I just re-read the new FAQ. And while it appears that the focus into the linked red barrel roll can be performed without finishing the linked action. If that’s the case, I believe that Supernatural Reflexes needs a major point increase especially for the manipulation of new gameplay.

Allowing any ship to Boost or Barrel roll pre-maneuver plus then focus without finishing that linked action is in 2.0 game breaking. And I know this opinion is in the minority. And yes I play Imperial a lot.

Ill be emailing Frank tonight asking for clarification tonight.

2 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

Allowing any ship to Boost or Barrel roll pre-maneuver plus then focus without finishing that linked action is in 2.0 game breaking. And I know this opinion is in the minority. And yes I play Imperial a lot. 

Wait, so do you think that you should be required to link actions?

What?

1 minute ago, Cgriffith said:

Then I believe Supernatural Reflexes needs to be a 20 point card. I just re-read the new FAQ. And while it appears that the focus into the linked red barrel roll can be performed without finishing the linked action. If that’s the case, I believe that Supernatural Reflexes needs a major point increase especially for the manipulation of new gameplay.

Allowing any ship to Boost or Barrel roll pre-maneuver plus then focus without finishing that linked action is in 2.0 game breaking. And I know this opinion is in the minority. And yes I play Imperial a lot.

Ill be emailing Frank tonight asking for clarification tonight.

It's not any ship. It's only Force users, who already pay a premium for access to the Force, plus another 12 points for Supernatural Reflexes.

Although I should also point out that Supernatural Vader can use his ability to perform additional actions pre-maneuver, after his barrel roll.

There's no question. Linked actions are optional. This has never been in question.

5 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

Wait, so do you think that you should be required to link actions?

What?

Did I say that?

1 minute ago, Cgriffith said:

Did I say that?

Yes.

46 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

Or focus which is a linked action which would in my opinion lead to a focus which can’t be chosen because it a linked action to a red barrel roll effectively which is not allowed because you already barrel rolled pre-maneuver.

You literally said that. No offense, lots of us was confused about linked actions at first.

If you cannot afford Supernatural, then you cannot afford Vader. Full stop.

2 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

If you cannot afford Supernatural, then you cannot afford Vader. Full stop.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THERE ARE OTHER FORCE TALENTS I SWEAR. TAKE THEM INSTEAD. SUPERNATURAL IS 12 POINTS, THAT IS TOO MUCH. IGNORE THE KYLO IN THE CORNER.

I'm still salty that Force users get Force upgrades instead of EPT/Talents, instead of in addition to. Supernatural is the only one I've considered using at all though.

Supernatural Reflexes. For when you need to barrel roll, target lock the guy behind you, focus, then tallon roll to stare down the poor sap you are about to obliterate.

Here is why the answer is Supernatural Reflexes and you shouldn’t worry about the lack of boost.

Barrel Roll is better most of the time.

Vader’s ability is a bonus. Supernatural is basically Vader’s ability before you move. You spend a Force to take an action.

Vader only has 3 actions he can do, 1 of which is Lock which is will rarely need to do unless he is swapping targets and the other is focus which is kind of doesn’t need because he has Force points. So spend a Force on Barrel Roll, move and take an action which will be focus most of the time. It’s exactly the same as spending for an action on the other side of his move which you can still do.

Positional options at I6 are far more valuable than the chance to shoot first at I7 which also costs a Force.

7 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

If you cannot afford Supernatural, then you cannot afford Vader. Full stop.

Agreed. Buying a 70 point ace, it is not the time to start looking for budget options.

44 minutes ago, DodgingArcs said:

Positional options at I6 are far more valuable than the chance to shoot first at I7 which also costs a Force. 

Basic rundown of the other force talents:

• Instinctive Aim - Vader can get multiple actions per turn and is flying a ship with an Advanced Targeting Computer and (probably) a Fire Control System. If you don't have a target lock.....why don't you have a target lock?
• Heightened Perception - Engaging at I7 is nice, but moving from engaging at I6 to I7 isn't so amazing as putting this talent on (say) an I3 inquisitor. At I6, with a half-decent initiative bid, Vader should already be shooting first if it's that important to you. More importantly, unlike 1.0 Veteran Instincts, this doesn't boost your Initiative in the activation phase - so if you're worried about sabre-dancing Wedge Antilles or Fenn Rau...it's not going to help.
• Sense - This one will help against Wedge or Fenn, because you get to look at their dial in the system phase. In fact, it'll help against anything, because (theoretically) you can Sense the intentions of an I2 Rookie Pilot and the I1 TIE strikers making up the rest of your squad can aileron/barrel roll to compensate. But whilst having a ship with Sense in your squad is great, there's no need for it to be Vader himself. Vader, at I6, already moves after everyone (depending on initiative) and taking Sense rather than Supernatural Reflexes provides you with an awesome piece of information at the same time as removing your main tool to do anything with it.

9 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

With built in ATC and the ability to use one of the 3 regenerating Force Charges, he still has the ability to do 2 actions per turn. With that being said there seems to be many opinions on what Force upgrade is best for him. There are 4, although with Vader’s built in need for Fire Control System, Instinctive Aim seems very useless. That leaves 3.

Supernatural Reflexes

Sense

Heighten Perception

Which upgrade do you think fits the best for him, and why?

in my opinion, currently I believe Heighten Perception is the best option. It allows Vader to engage at I7, and with early builds leaning towards at least one ace being in each build being I7 is very important. Currently there are 10 I6 pilots.

Han Solo (Scum/Rebel) - Fenn Rau (Scum/Rebel) - Wedge Antilles - Poe Dameron - Dengar - Midnight - Soontir Fel.

With the addition of more X-Wings on the table Wedge and Han Solo are seeing more gameplay and allowing Vader the opportunity to engage on his terms I believe is more important than (actual) limited repositioning options Supernatural Reflexes allows.

None of the current force powers are a good fit.

In the same vein, I'm trying all the other upgrades on Luke. Is it the best force upgrade for him also?

Supernatural Reflexes is very good on Luke as he has access to the full power of the card. Vader has access to only about 25-30% of it.

Yea I think its between that and Heightened Perception but I can't find a reason where I absolutely must shoot before anyone else. SR seems the only card that actually has 100% benefit for Luke.

Basically 3 out of 4 of the Force Powers are complete garbage. Supernatural Reflexes is extremely good but also extremely expensive and you need to be sure you're getting a ton of value out of it.

I think even Supernatural Reflexes is borderline poor on anybody but Luke, who gets benefit from both sides of the card and has the ability to regen his Force tokens more rapidly.