Specifically, what is the incidental part of the talent? Do I:
1. Apply the Armor Master talent again, raising my soak by one? Or...
2a. Is the second part of Supreme Armor Master the incidental? The semicolon makes it seem like it's separate.
2b. If the two are separate, can I activate the second part without suffering the three strain for the first?
Edited by StriderZessei51 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:Specifically, what is the incidental part of the talent? Do I:
1. Apply the Armor Master talent again, raising my soak by one? Or...
2a. Is the second part of Supreme Armor Master the incidental? The semicolon makes it seem like it's separate.
2b. If the two are separate, can I activate the second part without suffering the three strain for the first?
the way i read it is as one whole thing the first part is just saying when you can use it and what the cost, is the second part is the effect of the talent
SUPREME ARMOR MASTER
COST 20
Once per round, may suffer 3
strain to take the Armor
Master incidental; reduce the
next Critical Injury suffered
by 10 per point of soak, to a
minimum of 1.
So you suffer 3 strain and as an incidental you use the talent. Your opponent hits you and crits. Say your soak is 4. The critical he rolls comes up 160.
Crit 160: Dead: Complete, obliterated death.
But because of using supreme a.m. he takes 160 and subtracts the soak, 4 multiplies it by 10 and subtracts it from the crit roll. So 160-40 =120.
Crit 120: purplediamondpurplediamondpurplediamondBlinded: The target can no longer see. Upgrade the difficulty of all checks twice. Upgrade the difficulty of Perception and Vigilance checks three times.
Still sucky but you just avoided insta-death.
Now as an armor master your soak can be much higher especially with the regular and improved versions of armor master. So say soak was 9 in that example. 9x10 is 90. 160-90=30.
Crit 30: Discouraging Wound: Flip one light side Destiny point to a dark side Destiny Point (reverse if NPC).
Now you went from dying to loosing a destiny point. No biggie eh?
Edited by TheShardI understand the second part, TheShard, thank you. I'm just making sure that the talent isn't just poorly worded. The semicolon makes it seem the incidental part is a separate effect.
It would be less confusing if it was written: "As an incidental, when you take a critical injury..." or even just "Make the Armor Master Incidental:, etc."
Yup
Semicolons are used to link two clauses that have similar thoughts. In this case, the rules are saying "Do this incidental; here's what this incidental does." It's the way semicolons work: you make a clause, and then after the semicolon you follow it up with a new clause that basically contains the same thought, but perhaps expounded or with an example/illustration.
Semicolons aren't used to separate two different lines of thought; mild cheddar cheese is the best thing to use for grilled cheese sandwiches.
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8 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:Semicolons are used to link two clauses that have similar thoughts. In this case, the rules are saying "Do this incidental; here's what this incidental does." It's the way semicolons work: you make a clause, and then after the semicolon you follow it up with a new clause that basically contains the same thought, but perhaps expounded or with an example/illustration.
Semicolons aren't used to separate two different lines of thought; mild cheddar cheese is the best thing to use for grilled cheese sandwiches.
While I agree with you, I don't think the phrase "Take the Armor Master Incidental" is very intuitive. It would be much clearer if it just said, "When you receive a critical injury, as an incidental..." etc.
13 hours ago, StriderZessei said:While I agree with you, I don't think the phrase "Take the Armor Master Incidental" is very intuitive. It would be much clearer if it just said, "When you receive a critical injury, as an incidental..." etc.
technically you could pay the strain before the crit hits and then recover said strain during the combat, no crit, no problem, crit , you are already pre-set. which is slightly different from having to wait for the crit first. I personally think getting the crit first makes more sense though, although Im away from the books so cant cross ref the long wording, which should always be clearer and take precident.
16 hours ago, StriderZessei said:While I agree with you, I don't think the phrase "Take the Armor Master Incidental" is very intuitive. It would be much clearer if it just said, "When you receive a critical injury, as an incidental..." etc.
I see what you're saying. The little talent box in the talent tree is primarily designed as a reference, and the actual rules for the talent are in the talent section a few pages later in Keeping the Peace. So if there is ever any confusion as to the wording or meaning of a talent entry within a specialization, you can just look up the talent in the talent section of the given book for a full explanation of how the talent works! I agree that the talent could be worded better, but I don't think the semicolon is the problem.
1 hour ago, awayputurwpn said:I see what you're saying. The little talent box in the talent tree is primarily designed as a reference, and the actual rules for the talent are in the talent section a few pages later in Keeping the Peace. So if there is ever any confusion as to the wording or meaning of a talent entry within a specialization, you can just look up the talent in the talent section of the given book for a full explanation of how the talent works! I agree that the talent could be worded better, but I don't think the semicolon is the problem.
Very true. I did look at the talent section, but in this case it left me confused (clearly.) See below.
6 hours ago, syrath said:technically you could pay the strain before the crit hits and then recover said strain during the combat, no crit, no problem, crit , you are already pre-set. which is slightly different from having to wait for the crit first. I personally think getting the crit first makes more sense though, although Im away from the books so cant cross ref the long wording, which should always be clearer and take precident.
"Once per round, when the character suffered a Critical Injury, he may suffer 3 strain to take the Armor Master incidental. If he does, he reduces the Critical Injury result that he suffers by 10 per point of his soak, to a minimum of 1."
Sounds like it happens upon taking the injury.
1 hour ago, StriderZessei said:Very true. I did look at the talent section, but in this case it left me confused (clearly.) See below.
"Once per round, when the character suffered a Critical Injury, he may suffer 3 strain to take the Armor Master incidental. If he does, he reduces the Critical Injury result that he suffers by 10 per point of his soak, to a minimum of 1."
Sounds like it happens upon taking the injury.
That's also why it's Out of Turn, because you don't activate it until you take the hit.