The rule book references a primary turret arc (either double or single; page 17). Am I right that if, for example, the modified YT-1300 rotates its native double turret to the side that a) it cannot shoot from the front of the ship, b) it could fire once from the right side (as its primary attack) and once from the left side (as a turret attack via gunner) or vice versa, and c) card effects referencing primary arcs would be triggered from the left and right sides but not the front?

Thank you!

6 minutes ago, sthej said:

The rule book references a primary turret arc (either double or single; page 17). Am I right that if, for example, the modified YT-1300 rotates its native double turret to the side that a) it cannot shoot from the front of the ship, b) it could fire once from the right side (as its primary attack) and once from the left side (as a turret attack via gunner) or vice versa, and c) card effects referencing primary arcs would be triggered from the left and right sides but not the front?

Thank you!

A) Yes, in the case of the YT-1300, and most other ships with a turret weapon as their primary, if they rotate their arc(s) to the sides, they can't shoot out of the Forward Arc except with a missile/torpedo.

B) Depending on the Gunner upgrade, yes, they could potentially attack out of both sides in a single Combat Phase.

C1) No, if a card references the Primary Arc specifically, it -only- can trigger out of the Forward Arc.

C2) A card that just references an Arc can trigger if the arcs are rotated to the sides.

13 hours ago, Innese said:

A) Yes, in the case of the YT-1300, and most other ships with a turret weapon as their primary, if they rotate their arc(s) to the sides, they can't shoot out of the Forward Arc except with a missile/torpedo.

B) Depending on the Gunner upgrade, yes, they could potentially attack out of both sides in a single Combat Phase.

C1) No, if a card references the Primary Arc specifically, it -only- can trigger out of the Forward Arc.

C2) A card that just references an Arc can trigger if the arcs are rotated to the sides.

C) It depends on what you're talking about, actually. If it references the Front Firing Arc icon , then it only works when your turret arc/s are pointed to the front. If, on the other hand, it references performing a primary attack , then yes, your side or rear arcs are 100% valid.

If it references the V arc icon it may not work at all with a primary turret. Primary turrets do not have V arc primary weapons even with the turret forward.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

If it references the V arc icon it may not work at all with a primary turret. Primary turrets do not have V arc primary weapons even with the turret forward.

I thought that may be the case, which is different than what emeraldbeacon is saying. Do either of you have a page from either the rules or rule reference that clarifies this point?

Yes.

Page 4 describes arcs, and makes a clear distinction between V primary arcs and turret primary arcs.

But it's kind of a subtle distinction; if the card references 'a target in your V', it's legit to use with a turret facing forward (or sideways with the target across the quadrant line), e.g. Dengar pilot.

If an ability referencer a V primary weapon, such as Outmanoeuvre, it doesn't work with turrets pointed forward, only shaded V primary weapon bases, and Moldy Crow.

E: it would have been super helpful if the writers had used different symbols for 'position relative to the active ship' and 'primary weapon arc'.

Under standard arcs (p 4):

"Front arc ( FA symbol ) : This arc projects in the same direction that the ship is
facing. Most ships have a primary FA symbol weapon. Almost all ?, ?, and ?
weapons use this arc."

Under turret arcs (p 4):

"The turret arc indicator points toward one of the ship’s four standard arcs.
The standard arc that the turret arc indicator is pointing toward is a turret symbol in
addition to still being a standard arc."

Since the front arc symbol is defined under standard arcs, and the turret arc rules say that wherever the turret is pointing is also a standard arc, it seems to me that if the turret is pointing forward then it qualifies as the FA symbol as well.

(Wrote the above before you responded and can't bring myself to delete it since it took forever on my phone ).

Are you saying that if my turret points forward, and the ability just references V arc, then it would trigger. However, if it references a primary V weapon it doesn't?

Correct.

Your turret arc is a primary weapon, and its targets can be in your V arc, but it is not a V primary weapon. it is a [turret symbol] primary weapon.

Got it. Primary attacks/arcs are the ones burned into the pilots, so a turret can't trigger a primary V attack since it doesn't have one. So Captain Oicunn (vt-49) can use his ability in any direction his turret is pointing (primary attack at range 0), and could use Outmaneuver if his turret was facing forward (it references the V arc), but would not be able to benefit from Optimized Prototype since that requires V primary arc, which he doesn't have.

Almost. Outmanouvre only works from your v primary arc which oicunn doesn't have. Otherwise correct.

Mmm, based on my reading it doesn't require a "primary V" attack, just a V attack--which Oicunn has(if pointing the turret forward).

Here's why I believe that.

p4 of the rules reference says that the xwing has 4 "standard" arcs: V, >, <, and ^. It defines each of these arcs by using the symbol. So the arc symbol does not make something "primary" it only means in that arc space (either primary or standard). Indeed, the xwing only has a primary V, but still has the other 3 arcs.

The rules then clarify that any arc with a turret facing it is a standard arc (p4), which is defined by the arc symbol.

Therefore, Oicunn has a standard V arc, defined by the V symbol, if his turret points forward. The symbol triggers Outmaneuver (assuming the cards other conditions are met).

He doesn't though. He has a turret arc. The distinction is notable for instance with the Shadow Caster, which can overlay it's two primary weapons, but they're still distinct, one V arc, one turret.

This thread seems to be a good place to ask about Bistan. Because he specifies primary attack but the card doesn't have the symbol for front arc, does that mean if you have him in the Falcon and you're focussed you can shoot twice per turn (either once out of each arc or twice from the same) as long as you shoot at two different ships?

16 minutes ago, GreenLantern1138 said:

This thread seems to be a good place to ask about Bistan. Because he specifies primary attack but the card doesn't have the symbol for front arc, does that mean if you have him in the Falcon and you're focussed you can shoot twice per turn (either once out of each arc or twice from the same) as long as you shoot at two different ships?

Yes, the Falcon's turret is its primary attack weapon, so can use Bistan (as long as you have a focus too).

This is still a mess. I agree they should use different symbols for that.

Next question: Kavil reads: "While you perform a [non-V attack], roll 1 additional attack die."

So if I got a Dorsal Turret and a Veteran Gunner on Kavil, turret arc pointing forward (and in range 1 of an enemy)

i can make two shots,

one primary with 1 range bonus (total 3 dice) and

one turret with 1 range bonus and 1 pilot ability (total 4 dice) because the turret is pointing forward but is a [non-V attack].

Is this correct?

26 minutes ago, KaLeu said:

This is still a mess. I agree they should use different symbols for that.

Next question: Kavil reads: "While you perform a [non-V attack], roll 1 additional attack die."

So if I got a Dorsal Turret and a Veteran Gunner on Kavil, turret arc pointing forward (and in range 1 of an enemy)

i can make two shots,

one primary with 1 range bonus (total 3 dice) and

one turret with 1 range bonus and 1 pilot ability (total 4 dice) because the turret is pointing forward but is a [non-V attack].

Is this correct?

As per the latest FAQ you do get two shots in that case but you don't get to roll 4 dice with the turret.
The turret attack is a non primary V attack but you only add the Kavil bonus on > Λ <`` attacks.
His ability refers only to the arc you are firing from not if you are firing with a primary or secondary weapon.

12 minutes ago, tsondaboy said:

As per the latest FAQ you do get two shots in that case but you don't get to roll 4 dice with the turret.
The turret attack is a non primary V attack but you only add the Kavil bonus on > Λ <`` attacks.
His ability refers only to the arc you are firing from not if you are firing with a primary or secondary weapon.

And we are back to square one ...

You are saying that kavil's [non-V attack] refers to the forward firing arc (primary or not) but as was stated before outmaneuver which reads "While you perform a [V attack] ..." only works on a primary weapon? That doesn't make sense.

Outmaneuver is in the last page of the latest FAQ, if you have a printed forward Arc like Kavil, it tigers for his primary attack but not for his secondary attack even if its fired from the same forward Arc. If you don't have a printed forward firing arc like Dengar it doesn't trigger at all.

Kavil's and Dengar's ability refer to the Arc you are firing from not if you are using a forward facing primary arc.

You know what, I think you are right about Kavil. He gets a 4 dice dorsal turret attack even from the V arc.

I still don't get it (sorry),

so i looked up the Errata, here it says:

"A [V] attack uses the [V] icon above the attack value as shown on its ship
card. This is different from an attack that is performed against a ship in
it’s [V].

So as i understand it the keyword is " attack " which can be there, meaning "primary weapon forward firing arc" or missing, meaning "used firing arc". In that case Kavil's ability would add to the forward pointing turret (as it would to a torpedo).

Like I said above, I think you are right about Kavil and his turret attack from the V arc.

Although I am not sure about the torpedo attack because that one is a forward V attack. In fact you could probably combine outmaneuver and torpedo attack since they are both V arc attacks.

1 hour ago, tsondaboy said:

Like I said above, I think you are right about Kavil and his turret attack from the V arc.

Although I am not sure about the torpedo attack because that one is a forward V attack. In fact you could probably combine outmaneuver and torpedo attack since they are both V arc attacks.

Nope OM specifies primary.

And Kavil applies his bonus to turret arc regardless of position but not to primary or Torps.

It would be so much easier if "forward arc" and "forward firing arc" weren't defined using THE SAME SYMBOL.

Seriously. Having one be an empty V and the other be a filled V would save SO much confusion.

6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Nope OM specifies primary.

And Kavil applies his bonus to turret arc regardless of position but not to primary or Torps.

I am only looking the cards at the official squad builder, since my conversion kits haven't been delivered yet.
Outmaneuver text is distinctly different than fearless in that the first does not say primary only the second requires V primary.
Is the text on the printed card different?

12 hours ago, xwingMinty said:

Yes, the Falcon's turret is its primary attack weapon, so can use Bistan (as long as you have a focus too).

Thanks mate.