Question: If a Proximity Mine is dropped underneath a ship, does it detonate? If that ship then activates and moves, but its template does not overlap the Proximity Mine, does it detonate?

I seem to recall in 1.0 you could drop a mine underneath a ship's base and it would immediately detonate. But a strict reading of the Rules References suggests in 2.0 this no longer applies?

Have I missed something?

Per the Rules Reference:

Proximity Mine:

"After a ship overlaps or moves through this device, it detonates."

"Overlaps":

"While a ship executes a maneuver or otherwise moves, it overlaps an object
if the ship’s final position would physically be on top of an object."

"Moves Through":

"A ship moves through an object if the template is placed on that object when
the ship moves."

I started a post this way, typed out a long-ish post, thinking I'd missed something too.

I had.

I hadn't realized that the Device section on p.9 continued from the left-hand column to the right-hand column. "If a device that detonates when overlapped is placed under more than one ship’s base, it detonates instantly and the player placing the device chooses which ship it affects." In some ways, I guess that isn't perfectly clear that a device will detonate for one ship and not just more than one, but I think the intent is clear, and there might be another line elsewhere in the Rules Reference.

TL,DR: Kaboom.

38 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I started a post this way, typed out a long-ish post, thinking I'd missed something too.

I had.

I hadn't realized that the Device section on p.9 continued from the left-hand column to the right-hand column. "If a d  evice that detonates when overlapped is placed under more than one ship’s base, it detonates instantly and the player placing the device chooses which ship it affects." In some ways, I guess that isn't perfectly clear that a device will detonate for one ship and not just more than one, but I think the intent is clear, and there might be another line elsewhere in the Rules Reference.

 

TL,DR: Kaboom.

Nice find. Thanks.

Does leave open the interpretation of just the one ship.. but it does seem to imply it would immediately detonate.

But I hate it when the rules implies something ?

9 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

In  some ways, I guess that isn't perfectly clear that a device will detonate for one ship and not just more than one, but I think the intent is clear, and there might be another line elsewhere in the Rules Reference. 

There's not, that line is the only mention of it. RAW, your prox mine only detonates if it's dropped onto multiple things.

The issue with intent is that it's always possible you're wrong... the design could be "marking multiple ships is too messy so just explode instantly". Until the RAW changes, there's no way of knowing.

By that logic a bomb can never overlap while being dropped (because the Overlapping section only talks about maneuvers).

But that's silly – the device entry itself talks about what happens when the bomb is placed overlapping a ship. So obviously overlapping can happen without a moving ship.

Because of that I'd say it instantly donates.

We had this same discussion last night, we came to the conclusion that if thw bomb detonated immediately then you wouldnt need the part about placing the template under a ship

Not all bombs detonate when overlapped though.

6 hours ago, GermanBlackbot said:

Not all bombs detonate when overlapped though.

Under the current 2.0 wording there are no bombs that detonate by overlapping. Bombs always explode at the end of activation.

Mines on the other hand only explode when overlapped.

Both are subsets of the category "Device".

To be fair you aren't the only one in this thread to muddy the language, just the most recent.

You are right, sorry. That changes my sentence to:

Bombs don't detonate just because they're overlapped, though.

8 hours ago, GermanBlackbot said:

Because of that I'd say it instantly donates.

I donate one damage card to the church of your hull

Official Answer: When an object is placed underneath a ship, that ship counts as overlapping that object.

So it immediately goes "Kaboom".

2 hours ago, GermanBlackbot said:

Official Answer: When an object is placed underneath a ship, that ship counts as overlapping that object.

So it immediately goes "Kaboom".

Which also covers Connor Nets and Loose Cargo tokens: It's an immediate overlap.

2 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Which also covers Connor Nets and Loose Cargo tokens: It's an immediate overlap.

Is this true with Rigged Cargo? My local group is having an argument over this at the moment and I happen to agree with your interpretation!

Rigged Cargo is an object (just like other obstacles, along with devices & ships). Since you're placing the object underneath a ship, the ship counts as overlapping the object.

It does overlap the Rigged Cargo Chute, but there is currently no effect that results from a ship overlapping an obstacle when it is not moving.

Quote

While a ship executes a maneuver, if it moves through or overlaps an obstacle, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle:

• Asteroid: After executing the maneuver, it rolls one attack die. On a d result, the ship suffers one d damage; on a c result, it suffers one c damage. Then the ship skips its Perform Action step this round.
• Debris Cloud: After the Check Difficulty step, the ship gains one stress token. After executing the maneuver, it rolls one attack die. On a c result, the ship suffers one c damage.

While a ship is moving, but not executing a maneuver, if it moves through or overlaps an obstacle, it executes its move as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle:

• Asteroid: The ship rolls one attack die. On a d result, the ship suffers one d damage; on a c result, it suffers one c damage.
• Debris Cloud: The ship gains one stress token. The ship rolls one attack die. On a c result, the ship suffers one c damage.

While a ship is at range 0 of an obstacle it may suffer different effects.

• Asteroid: The ship cannot perform attacks.

23 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

It does overlap the Rigged Cargo Chute, but there is currently no effect that results from a ship overlapping an obstacle when it is not moving.

It's extremely tenuous to say the ship counts as overlapping the debris but nothing happens to it as overlapping only has rules in the context of moving. That's going to be a tough one to sell to your TO.

Per the latest rulings, the overall sense of the rules is that an overlap by having an object dropped on or under you is the same as an overlap based on moving over the object.

I tried finding this in the posts and hope in the find it here but I guess it was not discussed. In the sheets that came with the conversions it says proximately minds Will do 2 rolls of damage .

But in the downloadable rules it also comes with a sheet of it says one damage plus 2 rolls of damage. Applying all hits and Critical.

Which one is the correct 1. Apparently I came up twice with me.

The rulebook is correct, the mine was changed after the kits were printed.

Ok thanks.

I wish they did dress that With its own print up sheet.

On 9/20/2018 at 3:38 PM, emeraldbeacon said:

I donate one damage card to the church of your hull

All hail the church of the hull..