The "inspiration" for this matchup was from playing Thrawn's Revenge. I attacked a Greater Maldrood shipyard that was relatively undefended, only a few ISDIIs and the default garrison of Arquitens and IPV-1s. My 2 ISDIs and Zsinj's SSD engage his Star Destroyers while I send 8 Nebulon-Bs and B2s to attack the shipyard. I figured the Nebulon-Bs should have easily handled the Arquitens while the ISDIs and SSD are busy. To my shock and amazement the 4 Arquitens were winning against 2 to 1 odds, blowing up 3 of my Neb-Bs and the ISDIs arrived too late to stop 3 of the ARQs from escaping to hyperspace.

Inevitably I thought of how this would go in Armada. First player has 8 Neb-Bs and the Objective would be Station Assault, with the Second player having 4 ARQs, who wins?

If you lose at a 2 to 1 points advantage in Armada, you’ve had a shocker.

1 hour ago, TheCallum said:

If you lose at a 2 to 1 points advantage in Armada, you’ve had a shocker.

Maybe the ARQs could do it in Armada too, Neb-Bs have those easy to hit side arcs, plus the Neb-Bs have to blow up both stations.

More than anything else I thought it would be a funny scenario to share.

3 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

Maybe the ARQs could do it in Armada too, Neb-Bs have those easy to hit side arcs, plus the Neb-Bs have to blow up both stations.

More than anything else I thought it would be a funny scenario to share.

You would need not only to hit the side arcs, also to be hit just by their side arcs. With no braces they can stand up to 14 hit points. 8 nebs make 16 damage per round easily, so unless you avoid being shot by every neb you're loosing one arquitens per round. Considering the attacks are just 3 red dice size braces are removing just one damage probably so I guess a Neb would stand up to 13 damage being hit at the side. 4 arquitens will be lucky if they get 12 damage per round.

Even having to destroy the stations it would take one round to blow up both (they are 8 hull isn't it?) what would make a 7 neb vs 4 arquitens what is not enough advantage.

It could be different if you make a 408 points battle between 8 neb (408) and 4 arquintens what would allow the arquitens to get a lot of tech to balance the engagement. However I am not sure it would be enough.

Note: around 340 is the best I got

Well, how would be build the two fleets?

The Arquitens would could build up as IO, Adv Projectors, ET, Enhanced Armament. And one could be Vader & Hand of Justice. EA would give you 4-5 reds with Vader rerolls, which maxes out at 5.15 damage w/ a 21% chance of an accuracy, or 4.69 damage and a 57% chance of an accuracy.

The Nebulons themselves come in at 408 points, so they're technically not legal, and they don't have a commander. But we'll let that go for a minute and take a look at the situation. With their double brace but single evade, you'll likely be aiming for that 4.7 damage w/ accuracy to lock the evade down, else he'll remove that double damage and brace to 2 damage on your shot. Let's give the Arq best case scenario in that they're attacking the side hull. They will be doing 3 damage (5 braced to 3) per shot, so it'll take 2 Arq to kill a Nebulon... But also keep in mind with IO, they won't be able to use their tokens as freely as they would like. Let's also give the Arq the best case for their shots, in that only the single red (CF to double red) is returned. You'll get 2 damage through max (requires double doubles... 1.5625% likelyhood, or double/accuracy... 3.125%, so <5% total), but more than likely 0-1 damage... We'll go ahead and call it 1 damage consistently. With Advanced projectors, the first 2 shots each turn you can easily move to other shields. The next two shots you can take to shields no problem. It's shots 5-8 that may be a concern (assuming everyone targets the same hull zone the same turn). You can theoretically live through it all with 1 hull (using the contain as neccessary), but your evade token is also likely to get burned. It should leave you with 1 hull and 2 redirects... so you might be better off burning a redirect. This is also theoretical because the 4 arq won't be able to shoot at the same hull zone to kill 2 nebs each turn, and the 8 nebs won't be able to shoot at the same arq.

But regardless, it basically comes down to killing 2 nebs, and .9 arq first round of engagement. killing 2 nebs, killing off that final arq, which will take 5/6 ships due to AP. killing 1.5 nebs, stripping shields on 2nd arq. Killing 1.5 nebs, doing hull damage to 2nd arq. killing final neb, killing arq. Obviously if everything is in the Arq favor, the Nebs don't have a chance.

But if the Nebs line up those front arcs and throw 4 reds, the Arqs are in trouble. 4 reds (inc CF dial) result in 3 average damage, with a 41% chance of a double damage, and a 41% chance of an accuracy. Which means that there's really only a 15% chance or so that the double damage goes through (need the acc & double to lock down the evade), but even then, you're only doing 3 damage really. So let's just assume 3 damage from the Nebs. 2 of it gets redirected via AP, 1 onto shield. Second one redirects with the other token onto another hull zone, and eats the final shield itself. Third one burns a redirect for the 4th hull zone and uses an evade to take no hull damage. 4th one burns the evade to take 2 hull damage. 5th one kills the Arq. 6/7/8 repeat 1-3 onto the second Arq. The Arq themselves now have to take 3 ships to kill a nebulon since those front hull shields are stronger. So round 2 starts with both down 1 ship, and an injured second ship. From there, the Arq will take down a second Neb (and damage the 3rd) in exchange for taking down a 2nd Arq, and damaging a 3rd. 3rd round the Arq take out the 3rd Neb, and lose their third Arq. And 4th round that Arq can't take down a Neb, and dies himself.

But hold up, we've only talked about salvo theory, and not the actual game. In reality, neither player is going to present the same ship to all of the other ships to shoot. Furthermore, the Arq actually end up with the upper hand as far as navigating thanks to those engine techs. I would actually argue that making the Arq non-symmetrical would be useful, switching out the officers since I don't believe IO does that much for them. Montferrat, Brunson, Grint, Aresko, Wulff and Hondo could all be useful. I would probably go with Montferrat, Brunson, Grint, and Aresko. You could also give one of them Needa/TRCs... Though perhaps Quad Turbos would be better... With 4 dice and Vader rerolls, if you reroll all non-doubles/accuracies, you walk away with a 3.25 average damage and a 63% chance of getting an accuracy, which then doubles and you lock down both braces. Perhaps you do keep an IO or two (I would still prefer Montferrat and Brunson) to get rid of the evade on the first attack, and then rely on QTCs to lock down both braces, pushing all the damage through... But it's a gamble. I have a feeling that QTCs aren't actually better. We also haven't talked about dual arcing at all - the Arq would be best off charging right through the Nebs at speed 4, and throwing 4 dice out each side, and staying in the Neb's weak side arcs.

I definitely think that there's a game to be had here. The Arq on paper seem to have the disadvantage, but I'm pretty sure that once you put the ships on the board and realize how difficult it is to stack up all of the attacks from *EIGHT* Nebulons, it won't be anywhere near as one sided as it seems.

EWS is probably better than AP. Are Needa and Brunson worth considering instead of IO?

I should have clarified specifics in the OP, but I ran out of time during my work breaks. The Neb-B player would be at 500pts leaving 92pts (not including Commander) for upgrades. The Arquitens player would be at 400pts leaving 184-164pts for upgrades depending on the ARQs used (again not including Commander).

As for what ARQ Commander I might try would be Vader, Tarkin, or Thrawn.

Edit: You could perhaps represent the 2 IPV-1s as a single Raider, but that would be a kind of bad analog. The IPV-1s in TR are the Greater Maldrood anti-starfighter ships, while in Armada Raiders are far more versatile than simple anti-squadron ships. We could add a Raider anyways to make this scenario more interesting.

If I was playing the Arquitens, I would run this:

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Minister Tua (2)
• Nav Team (4)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Hand of Justice (4)
• Early Warning System (7)
= 124 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Wulff Yularen (7)
• Nav Team (4)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 80 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Commandant Aresko (7)
• Nav Team (4)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 80 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Agent Kallus (3)
• Nav Team (4)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 76 Points

Total Points: 360

I could see it working... but there are a lot of other things you could do with even one more ACC. And the only reason I chose the Command Cruisers, is for the Nav Team.

I feel like this battlefield needs to be wheelchair accessible for all the handicap you're bringing