I toyed with double Cyclops last store and I liked them. However I thought there were fixable things. First of all both Cymoons were the big point prize so I move onto more cost-efficient versions. I also found SAd activations being a ****. I outactivated or was outactivated. I was about to remove him from the fleet but I chose to give him another chance with 6 activations what would allow me to compete with MSUs being a completely bully (2 big ships) and give me also an edge against other double biggies that work on 4-5 activations. It would also give me an extra deployment. The initial idea is to use the fifth ship as a lifeboat but I found enough points for several versions and Vader could go back on a Cymoon if needed.

Let's go to the lists:

2_Cymoon Competitive (400/400)
=============================
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 17)
+ Strategic Adviser (4)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 13)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 52)
+ Darth Vader (36)
+ Minister Tua (2)
+ Flechette Torpedoes (3)
+ Instigator (4)
+ Early Warning System (7)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Contested Outpost
Solar Corona
Most Wanted

This raider is built to deal with squadrons but only if completely necessary. As I said the idea was to get a lifeboat with an extra activation. Tua seemed a good idea to make it more durable. It would work as an activation padding and if I really need that help lock enemy squadrons, hopefully during two rounds and fleeing away as soon as possible. I like it and I won't try anything agressive/risky. I could try it with a Cymoon as flagship maybe. Whatever. Even against 0 squadrons is not a was as the raider is punchy (maybe ER instead of FT)

2_Cymoon Competitive IF (400/400)
================================
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 23)
+ Strategic Adviser (4)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ Intensify Firepower! (6)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 13)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 36)
+ Darth Vader (36)
Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Contested Outpost
Solar Corona
Most Wanted

Raider just as lifeboat. IF+extra red dice from gozantis in exchange. I found cool the idea of burning evades quickly. Not too much to say.

2_Cymoon Competitive Arq (400/400)
=================================
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 23)
+ Strategic Adviser (4)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ Intensify Firepower! (6)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 13)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 + 36)
+ Darth Vader (36)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Contested Outpost
Solar Corona
Most Wanted

With all the extra points I really have I noticed an arquitens could fit within the fleet. It is not so weak at long range and provide good support firepower contributing more to the combat than the lifeboat raider. It is speed 3 so Admo and Demo could hunt it so not a comfortable place to command from. I like I manage to keep IF.

2_Cymoon Competitive IO (400/400)
================================
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 25)
+ Intel Officer (7)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
+ Avenger (5)
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 23)
+ Strategic Adviser (4)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ Intensify Firepower! (6)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 36)
+ Darth Vader (36)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
Contested Outpost
Solar Corona
Most Wanted

Again back to raider lifeboat. This time I make the Cymoon more effective against big ships and in general against any ship with some token pressure. I ended with what I think is a clever solution. I wanted two IO but SAd make it impossible and with just one I find myself a bit tied to an activation order (I ignore that if needed but it doesn't change the fact that it makes a built less efficient). Avenger was also a good option but it keeps the same problem. The good news is that even when IO and Avenger share the same problem the don't share it the same way. Avenger want to shoot later. IO want to shoot first so with both on the same ship I am not forced to any activation order. I will just use one or the other. I kept IF and I lost one comms net but not a big deal.

About every list I am not 100% sold on Most Wanted. It is not a bad objective for a MSU but even against them is not bad at all so there it is.

Which one? Why? Improvements? Thoughts? Thanks.

I would probably go with 2_Cymoon Competitive IF (400/400) as my first choice. I don't think putting upgrades on the Raider for anti-squad is worth anything - at Speed 4 and skirting the engagement, squadrons shouldn't be able to attack it anyways. That rules out that variant. I suppose you could go with the Arquitens, but then I feel like I would play it such that it gets some attacks in, which means a faster fleet could definitely go after it and kill Vader, negating the entire purpose to having a life boat. And if you're just running away, then you might as well have the cheaper, faster, and more maneuverable Raider. Plus, the Assault Gozantis with IF will contribute more imo than the Arquitens will. CF those into 2 reds and start having those Gozantis do something good!

The final list would be the other one I would consider. IO plus Avenger makes for some hard choices and basically gives you plenty of accuracy options without actually having an accuracy. I would have to play between the two to know which one I thought was better overall. My gut tells me making the big guns bigger is probably the right answer, but I also feel like I often over-estimate that, and that having 4 guns (no matter how small those additional two are) instead of 2 would be better.

As for objectives, I might consider Station Assault. Without ECMs or any Defensive tech, I'm sure you wouldn't mind diverting a bit of the damage away from your ISDs. It should also mean that your Raider lifeboat is 100% safe. Though you could also go with Blockade Run to make good use of your long range, wide front arcs.

And as a total change of thought, I've seen good use out of a Needa TRC IF Cymoon, which no longer needs the rerolls provided by Vader. I don't know how well it would go in a double Cymoon build, but that would allow you to drop to Motti or Jerry or something as your commander and even free up a few more points for other upgrades. Just something to consider.

28 minutes ago, Khyros said:

I would probably go with 2_Cymoon Competitive IF (400/400) as my first choice. I don't think putting upgrades on the Raider for anti-squad is worth anything - at Speed 4 and skirting the engagement, squadrons shouldn't be able to attack it anyways. That rules out that variant. I suppose you could go with the Arquitens, but then I feel like I would play it such that it gets some attacks in, which means a faster fleet could definitely go after it and kill Vader, negating the entire purpose to having a life boat. And if you're just running away, then you might as well have the cheaper, faster, and more maneuverable Raider. Plus, the Assault Gozantis with IF will contribute more imo than the Arquitens will. CF those into 2 reds and start having those Gozantis do something good!

The final list would be the other one I would consider. IO plus Avenger makes for some hard choices and basically gives you plenty of accuracy options without actually having an accuracy. I would have to play between the two to know which one I thought was better overall. My gut tells me making the big guns bigger is probably the right answer, but I also feel like I often over-estimate that, and that having 4 guns (no matter how small those additional two are) instead of 2 would be better.

As for objectives, I might consider Station Assault. Without ECMs or any Defensive tech, I'm sure you wouldn't mind diverting a bit of the damage away from your ISDs. It should also mean that your Raider lifeboat is 100% safe. Though you could also go with Blockade Run to make good use of your long range, wide front arcs.

And as a total change of thought, I've seen good use out of a Needa TRC IF Cymoon, which no longer needs the rerolls provided by Vader. I don't know how well it would go in a double Cymoon build, but that would allow you to drop to Motti or Jerry or something as your commander and even free up a few more points for other upgrades. Just something to consider.

Well the antisquadron raider wouldn't be running away during the match I would use it. On one side I like the idea of dealing with rogue squadrons by itself, on the other side the idea would be flying it with nav commads behind the cymoon jumping out (butnot so out) to lock enemy squadrons during one round. Let's say I face Riekaan Aces which don't always have a heavy hitter. Considering I hit at long range and they hit at medium+1 what is close to be the same I could fly the raider in to lock the squadrons one round and flak with FT while flying away for a second round of useless aces. That would make 2-3 rounds of cymoon free fire, enough to vaporize almost anything. A Neb, a Pelta and transports wouldn't be a threat to that raider. Of course I wouldn't try it under a MC80 fire but even in those cases only the FT are wasted as Tua+EWS helps the raider not only against squadrons. A Cymoon would hit it with just 3 dice (-1EWS-1Evade).

I agree about the Arquitens version. I like the support fire it provides but not sold about its true value. Maybe with TRC...

I am definitely more confident with the IF and the IO version cause they don't imply unknown content. I mean, I know the raider and I fly them pretty weel (I think) but no that specific setup on that specific role. I never get anything good from arquitens even when I think they are not bad though. I will give some table time to those assault gozantis next tournament I think, I think I ever used them.

I didn't consider Needa TRC. I would play with Vader even in that case basically cause I like him, Cymoons need him and he deserves a premium place at a premium event.?

I'd ditch the antisquadron upgrades on the Raider for a bid (and maybe ER.) Then you can first last two targets with a Cymoon, taking a long range shot then a close/medium one. Shown from your opponent's point of view:

4 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I'd ditch the antisquadron upgrades on the Raider for a bid (and maybe ER.) Then you can first last two targets with a Cymoon, taking a long range shot then a close/medium one. Shown from your opponent's point of view:

It could be interesting against the big ship/less activations fleets.

Tua+EWS+Instigator+FT>>IF+10 points bid

Not sure what would be better if that bid or the assault gozantis.,?

Also not sure if that bid would be necessary. Any DeMSU will outbid me. Also any BTAvenger that didn't realized the worlds moved on. I think 5 points bid may be enough. Brunson? ER? I dunno.

None of the above

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

None of the above

Thanks I guess.

Which one then? And please keep Tagges little ****ers to yourself. I will experiment with Tagge eventually but not until I give some glory to my Cymoons in return to all the fun.

2 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Thanks I guess.

Which one then? And please keep Tagges little ****ers to yourself. I will experiment with Tagge eventually but not until I give some glory to my Cymoons in return to all the fun.

The one with capacity to actually hurt large ships.

25 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

The one with capacity to actually hurt large ships.

On 9/18/2018 at 7:11 PM, ovinomanc3r said:

2_Cymoon Competitive IO (400/400)
================================
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 25)
+ Intel Officer (7)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
+ Avenger (5)
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 23)
+ Strategic Adviser (4)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ Intensify Firepower! (6)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 36)
+ Darth Vader (36)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
Contested Outpost
Solar Corona
Most Wanted

This one?

6 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

This one?

No. The one with an ISD II or a Kuat.

28 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

No. The one with an ISD II or a Kuat.

What would give me an ISD-II that would make it better killing big ships?

I didn't consider the Kuat cause I was evolving a long range double cymoon fleet. Kuat ends being more expensive somehow, I dunno why. Also I tend to build a BTAvenger and I am not sure I want to go back to that. It bores me a bit. I didn't play Kuat yet, though.

First attemp with the kuat

2_FakeCymoons Competitive (BTA)

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
- Strategic Adviser ( 4 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Intensify Firepower! ( 6 points)
= 135 total ship cost

Imperial Star Destroyer Kuat Refit (112 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
= 127 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Raider I-Class Corvette (44 points)
- Darth Vader ( 36 points)
= 80 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 30 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
= 28 total ship cost

= 0 total squadron cost

Card view link

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

It feels so different.

That's the only thing I saw with an ISD-II

2_Fake Cymoon (400/400)
======================
Imperial II-class Star Destroyer (120 + 63)
+ Darth Vader (36)
+ Strategic Adviser (4)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ Electronic Countermeasures (7)
+ Chimaera (4)
+ Entrapment Formation! (5)
Cymoon 1 Refit (112 + 13)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
Raider I-class Corvette (44)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
Most Wanted
Contested Outpost
Solar Corona

It has the advantage of Chimaera what could help with EF for engagement control, IF for damage and StM for tankiness.

I actually really like it. Much more than the Kuat one which doesn't provide more real firepower as the extra damage it gives me at close just cover the damage I lost at long. The Kuat could be handy against Liberties, that's true. The ISD2 on the other side offered less on paper but ECM and Chimaera are good additions. I lost intel officer and Avenger though.

I'll keep experimenting.