Thane is a real pain in the *** against high bull ships.

Kept turning up that "you may not modify dice crit"...

I watched Thane turn Bossk into Swiss Cheese by repeatedly flipping up Direct Hit over and over.

The impression I get from Rebels is they're not quite as maneuverable but they're tougher ships. A running theme for a lot of them is to passes action onto other nearby units. Garven can pass focus tokens, Dutch can pass target locks.

In the Stay on the leader blog there's a "Rebel Salad" list. I'd liken Rebels in general to be more of a "Potluck". Everybody bring somethings that everyone can share.

Oh and the whole "damage has to already be there during the attack" is not unique to Thane.

Optimized Prototype has the same requirement on top of requiring another ship to tlock your target. Yes it has the shield thing too, but its a two -ship combo so it SHOULD be stronger.

I haven't played Rebels yet, but have played against them exclusively so far this edition. Must say Im more excited to try them then I ever have been. As, Xs, and Ys seem better then ever before.

Just now, grandadmiralthrawn said:

I haven't played Rebels yet, but have played against them exclusively so far this edition. Must say Im more excited to try them then I ever have been. As, Xs, and Ys seem better then ever before.

As a rebel player, what exactly do you see as "better" about the new A-Wing?

Must say I'm halfway interested in trying big damage jank

Jan - nien, engine, moldy

Hera - ion turret, vet gunner, magva, saw

Sabine shuttle (optional ghost/phantom)

5/6 dice ghost attacks with saw crits. Seems cute

5 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

As a rebel player, what exactly do you see as "better" about the new A-Wing?

They're not paying a 2 point premium vs other ships for missiles. They get to shoot multiple missiles. They don't have to spend target locks to fire missiles that aren't proton rockets.

The named pilots are significantly cheaper (Arvel is the equivalent of 3 1e points cheaper than he was in 1e even with Chardaan Refit). They've lost double talent slots, but basically gained permanent soft PTL anyway. They've gained s-loops on the dial. They've gained native barrel roll.

They've lost the mod slot, but honestly I don't see any mods they'd really want to take at the moment anyway (much like the Interceptors) and they've lost an I5 pilot with a very strong ability.

They're better than their 1e equivalents in almost every way. The only problem is that they still haven't been buffed enough, or given sufficient tools in their new niche, to make them worth taking. It's really only an issue of what currently seems to be falling out as the early meta. Where ship count is king, the Z-95 does their job better at the moment.

If ace lists become prevalent, and the A-Wings get something like Snap Shot back then their dial and reposition abilities are going to make them extremely valuable blockers and flankers with tricks to depower aces.

13 hours ago, Npmartian said:

That doesn't factor in the rest of the list, which for me is a loaded-out Luke.

Well, of course, for simplicity you can look at the damage-output per ship in the list.

But why bring Han + Luke, when for the same points invested in Han you could bring Wedge + Thyrell instead? They have comparable bulk (thanks to 2 Agility) and they hit twice as hard as one Han.

9 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Well, of course, for simplicity you can look at the damage-output per ship in the list.

But why bring Han + Luke, when for the same points invested in Han you could bring Wedge + Thyrell instead? They have comparable bulk (thanks to 2 Agility) and they hit twice as hard as one Han.

I'm thinking that the YT1300 might need a second gunner slot. With the new format people are going to calculate the rate of return between a "Fat Ship" with one action/activation and "two smaller ships with their own actions.

Technically larger ships should have more opportunities for improved action economy just because they can have real crews. Compared to single (or duo) crew fighter craft.

14 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Yes, but thats a petty price to pay when you can constantly flip over Fuel Leak or gain 2 stress (on a ship that is action dependent) or whatever.

The crits are way too powerful to allow you to just pick one to flip.

That exact thing happened to my decimator when i tried to fly it earlier. First damage card i got was gain 2 stress and thane just flipped it 4 times, completely shutting down my decimator since xwings have a broll now natively he was always able to get out of my now stuck firing arc and i cant possibly turn fast enough. Thane literally soloed that deci because the rock placement prevented my aggressors from hitting him more than a couple times, all because he just kept flipping that stress crit over until i had like 6 stress stacked up (despite clearing one every turn) and then saw one of the facedowns was fuel leak and started flipping that.

I only won that because my two aggressors ion-walked Norra off the board (still half health lol) and i managed to blow Wedge up before he even did anything since i rammed Oicunn right in his face (or more accurately, got in the way of wedge). Thane at 1hp was not going to beat 2 aggressors that were only missing a shield...

Wait, how does that work? Once Thane exposes the damage card, it's faceup. He only works on facedown cards, so he doesn't get to keep flipping it.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Well, of course, for simplicity you can look at the damage-output per ship in the list.

But why bring Han + Luke, when for the same points invested in Han you could bring Wedge + Thyrell instead? They have comparable bulk (thanks to 2 Agility) and they hit twice as hard as one Han.

I agree with this example especially knowing what it takes for Han to get reliable shots in 2.0 now. I’ve run the Luke/Wedge and Thane list numerous times now and for what it does I believe if you outflank, and out maneuver your opponent beating it is very tough for any list.

With those three you have a ship that removes green dice, another that exposes damage that can be repeated crippling a list and then you have the super regen (if R2D2 is included) Luke which is a tough kill regardless of the other components in the list.

@Freeptop after it is repaired nothing stops Thane from flipping it again, and gain. Only way it would could stop is destroy Thane or be destroyed yourself.

14 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Concussion missiles also require the target to already be damaged. Compare their wording with Rexlar's. This is a big part of what makes a mediocre missile even worse.

This is incorrect.

Both Rexlar and Concussion missiles have the same trigger, which boils down to "After you perform an attack that hits". These types of abilities occur in the Aftermath step of the attack, specifically in section B. (RR Pg 5). But Damage is dealt in the prior step, appropriately called the "Deal Damage Step". Thus both Rexlar and Concussion Missiles can, indeed, expose damage cards they have just dealt.

37 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

Wait, how does that work? Once Thane exposes the damage card, it's faceup. He only works on facedown cards, so he doesn't get to keep flipping it.

Once some cards resolve, they flip facedown again. Theoretically, you could randomly flip the same card over multiple attacks.

Quick question, with Moldy Crow I can shoot front arc 3 dice or 2 dice in the direction of turret, right?

44 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

Wait, how does that work? Once Thane exposes the damage card, it's faceup. He only works on facedown cards, so he doesn't get to keep flipping it.

Direct hit in 2.0 instructs you to receive damage card and flip it facedown. So, you can flip same Direct hit each Thane's attack.

1 hour ago, Cgriffith said:

I agree with this example especially knowing what it takes for Han to get reliable shots in 2.0 now. I’ve run the Luke/Wedge and Thane list numerous times now and for what it does I believe if you outflank, and out maneuver your opponent beating it is very tough for any list.

With those three you have a ship that removes green dice, another that exposes damage that can be repeated crippling a list and then you have the super regen (if R2D2 is included) Luke which is a tough kill regardless of the other components in the list.

@Freeptop after it is repaired nothing stops Thane from filling it again, and gain. Only way it would could stop is destroy Thane or be destroyed yourself.

Han is way more durable than 2 X-Wings and can have pretty substantial offensive and defensive mods active at the same time. For reference, I've had a lot of games where Wedge dropped either to the initial joust or the turn after, but I've never had Han die in less than 7-8 turns getting shots that were heavily modified the whole time. Yeah he's double the points, but he does substantially more than double the work, so that's fine. My Han build for reference:

Han

-Title

-R2D2

-Kanan Jarrus

-Lone Wolf

If I take an evade action near a rock (which happens a lit unless I'm boosting to not get shot entirely), I can reroll all defense dice once, then reroll a single die on top of that, I can reroll the entire attack roll and I have a floating Lone Wolf reroll, a floating force and an auto evade on the last attack. Then, if I'm out of shields and I have a damage card, R2D2 gives me a shield and, with Han's pilot ability, only has about a 14% chance to flip a card.

This is miles ahead of any combination of 2-3 rebels ships I've tried in it's place both in terms being hard to catch, hard to chase down, and putting out consistent damage.

13 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Han is way more durable than 2 X-Wings and can have pretty substantial offensive and defensive mods active at the same time. For reference, I've had a lot of games where Wedge dropped either to the initial joust or the turn after, but I've never had Han die in less than 7-8 turns getting shots that were heavily modified the whole time. Yeah he's double the points, but he does substantially more than double the work, so that's fine. My Han build for reference:

Han

-Title

-R2D2

-Kanan Jarrus

-Lone Wolf

If I take an evade action near a rock (which happens a lit unless I'm boosting to not get shot entirely), I can reroll all defense dice once, then reroll a single die on top of that, I can reroll the entire attack roll and I have a floating Lone Wolf reroll, a floating force and an auto evade on the last attack. Then, if I'm out of shields and I have a damage card, R2D2 gives me a shield and, with Han's pilot ability, only has about a 14% chance to flip a card.

This is miles ahead of any combination of 2-3 rebels ships I've tried in it's place both in terms being hard to catch, hard to chase down, and putting out consistent damage.

I'd have to differ it's not a two ship build it's three:

Luke Skywalker ~ Thane Kyrell ~ Wedge Antilles it's also a build for the most part with a 8 point bid, two I5 pilots, and one at I6. The I6 can strip Han Solo of that very important 1 agility, even if you take the evade action. Then if damage gets pushed through Thane is sitting there ready to flip the damage card of his choosing (which may) cripple Han and his actions and/or mods; then you have Luke whom can just about do anything he wants then.

I beat a Han - Luke list this weekend. I went after Han with all three X's and let Luke strip my shields from Wedge; it was 3 rounds and Han was off the table. I still had all 3 X's left. My opponent conceded.

6 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

I'd have to differ it's not a two ship build it's three:

Luke Skywalker ~ Thane Kyrell ~ Wedge Antilles it's also a build for the most part with a 8 point bid, two I5 pilots, and one at I6. The I6 can strip Han Solo of that very important 1 agility, even if you take the evade action. Then if damage gets pushed through Thane is sitting there ready to flip the damage card of his choosing (which may) cripple Han and his actions and/or mods; then you have Luke whom can just about do anything he wants then.

I beat a Han - Luke list this weekend. I went after Han with all three X's and let Luke strip my shields from Wedge; it was 3 rounds and Han was off the table. I still had all 3 X's left. My opponent conceded.

Funny, I played against your list with Han and Luke and tabled it without losing either. Wedge put some damage through, but single modded shots are super unreliable and Luke and Thane barely did damage when my large base boosting even allowed them to shoot. Wedge casually died to 2 turns of focused fire and at that point the game was basically over because he couldn't hold me down or power through enough damage.

We can't both be right, so we'll agree to disagree, but I will say, if your opponent wasn't running Kanan, that accounts for the discrepancy because he wildly changes how that ship plays.

1 hour ago, Freeptop said:

Wait, how does that work? Once Thane exposes the damage card, it's faceup. He only works on facedown cards, so he doesn't get to keep flipping it.

Vast majority of the more "deadly" crits get flipped face down once they resolve. Most of which Thane can instantly resolve because he triggers before the attack resolves.

Had him roll hit/hit/focus against me, spent the focus, flipped over the one where i suffer crits instead of hits, and it immediately resolves because of the timing so i suffer 2 crits instead of 2 hits.

Hence why i said he should NOT be allowed to pick the card. Easily the most powerful ability in the game atm.

10 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Hence why i said he should NOT be allowed to pick the card. Easily the most powerful ability in the game atm.

I can see him getting a 4-6 point increase soon. He's incredible

@MasterShake2

My opponent was not running Kanan if I recall correctly, I'll ask him later this week. Your Han build comes in at (124), and with Luke being base (62) what upgrades did you attach to him? I very interested knowing that your list is at (186) it seems Luke is rather light no matter what he was equipped with..

13 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

I can see him getting a 4-6 point increase soon. He's incredible

@MasterShake2

My opponent was not running Kanan if I recall correctly, I'll ask him later this week. Your Han build comes in at (124), and with Luke being base (62) what upgrades did you attach to him? I very interested knowing that your list is at (186) it seems Luke is rather light no matter what he was equipped with..

Kanan allows you to clear stress on white maneuvers and because of the timing also allows you to take actions when hitting debris, so Han has a lot more freedom to abuse the boost or obstacles in ways that are hard to follow and when he's not doing that has a passive focus conversion. He plays really differently with Kanan.

Luke just has a Stealth Device and R5 (I prefer R5 units over R2s on Luke because his actions aren't super critical, he can fix structural damage and not losing shots from the weapons disabled can mean he's still a threat while regenerating). It keeps his relatively cheap while still making him a chore to kill.

4 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Kanan allows you to clear stress on white maneuvers and because of the timing also allows you to take actions when hitting debris, so Han has a lot more freedom to abuse the boost or obstacles in ways that are hard to follow and when he's not doing that has a passive focus conversion. He plays really differently with Kanan.

Luke just has a Stealth Device and R5 (I prefer R5 units over R2s on Luke because his actions aren't super critical, he can fix structural damage and not losing shots from the weapons disabled can mean he's still a threat while regenerating). It keeps his relatively cheap while still making him a chore to kill.

I know what Kanan does; more importantly I was trying to figure out the Luke build, no Afterburners. no Proton Torps, no Force upgrade. Very light

Just now, Cgriffith said:

I know what Kanan does; more importantly I was trying to figure out the Luke build, no Afterburners. no Proton Torps, no Force upgrade. Very light

2AGL ship, even with passive focus has been suboptimal to dump a lot of points into especially when you hit repositioning I6 or I5's with a good bid. I decided early that the goal was cheap and annoying to kill. R5 almost always gets Luke 2 extra hull and more than a few times has saved him by getting rid of structural and Stealth device, on average, shrugs off the first 2 attacks pretty casually. In short, they're now trying to kill an 8 health ship that's almost immune to long range or obstructed primary shots.

I've found a use for A-wings!

New Squadron

(62) Luke Skywalker
(6) Sense
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points 68

(36) Arvel Crynyd
(3) Intimidation
Points 39

(38) Sabine Wren
Points 38

(52) Wedge Antilles
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(2) Predator
Points 54

Total points: 199

Full disclosure, I think the Sense upgrade has ridiculous potential...but no real good platform. Honestly, Luke is about the only force pilot I feel comfortable even flying

Sure, you could do cheaper like TIE Ezra...but that's a 38 point flipping TIE fighter!!! He ain't exactly Howlrunner, yeah?

4 hours ago, Npmartian said:

Once some cards resolve, they flip facedown again. Theoretically, you could randomly flip the same card over multiple attacks.

Oh, right, that's what I forgot. I haven't gotten a 2.0 core set yet, and I last looked at the spoiler images for the damage deck a few months ago - I'd forgotten just how different the 2.0 damage cards are! ?