When a spellcaster conjure a spirit to fight for him, how do you evaluate his strengths and abilities?

Ex: I want to summon a fire spirit. I have 2 greens and 1 yellow; i roll 3 success and 2 adv. Which easy rules would you apply for this fighter spirit?

Thank you.

Before you summon the spirit, you need to come up with a stat block for it with your GM. Or, some GMs will do it for you.

Either way, the roll to summon has no baring on the summoned creature aside from the fact that The difficult year is based on the power of said creature.

Ok, so as a GM, i need to create for example Fire spirit, Earth spirit, Wind spirit... (minion level) with an average difficulty;

Next, to make it easy, the same spirits with an adversary +1 = Hard difficulty and Spirits adversary +2 = Daunting difficulty.

Is it the idea ?

Beyond the general advice for building minions and rivals from the core rulebook, I would say that a conjured being shouldn't be "better" than the conjurer or any other player character in general terms. For game balance, not narrative reasons.

For example, it shouldn't have a better attack check (and weapon) than your magic check, making Attack spells woefully inefficient, nor your group's best attackers... because that would devalue their contribution. That is simply the most obvious example though.

I would follow the general guideline that using a magic skill to solve a problem should be a step more difficult than solving the problem using a more specific and appropriate skill.

For example, a conjured 'lock-gremlin' might be able pick locks, but not as well as a player character could have instead.

10 hours ago, KelYco said:

Ok, so as a GM, i need to create for example Fire spirit, Earth spirit, Wind spirit... (minion level) with an average difficulty;

Next, to make it easy, the same spirits with an adversary +1 = Hard difficulty and Spirits adversary +2 = Daunting difficulty.

Is it the idea ?

Umm…no. That's now how the conjure spell works.

The GM creates the adversary using the rules on pages 203–204. Then the player uses the conjure spell rules on pages 216–217. A minion no bigger than silhouette 1 is an easy check. Regardless of what abilities the minion may or may not have. Per the table on page 217, a rival (no larger than silhouette 1) increases the difficulty by 1 (increase the difficulty by two if the rival is silhouette 2 or 3). And, of course, if you want the summoned creature to be friendly that increases the difficulty by an additional one.

@c_beck is correct. Conjure follows the same rules as any other spell when it comes to adding purple dice. It has a chart you follow to determine difficulty.

But i highly recommend you talk with your player and if he's only going to summon the same kind of creature multiple times then you could work with him to make the stat blocks. Increasing difficulty to grant the conjure additional effects is not a bad idea. Don't feel constrained by the magic rules, but empowered to adjust them to fit your table.

Another solution I use a lot with conjure is I have a very vague template I use. If the player is summoning a minion then it will come with one stat at 3, another stat at 1,and the rest at 2. Depending on what they summon its group skills will include all the combat skills it needs, and one or two extra. If it's a rival i give it two 3's instead of one. Then give it skills based on what is actually being summoned.

If the player rolls extra advantage then I offer to let him use that to buff his summon. E.g. if he summons a fire elemental it could gain a fire aura that deals damage for two advantage. I usually allow a triumph to give the creature adversary 1.

Thank you. In fact, i was more thinking about Shadowrun stuff like you can summon different kind of spirit, depending of your magic skills. You could even summon spirits stronger than your skills ...

However, you re right. i should more stay close to Genesys core rule book. As i see c__beck , it is pretty hard to summon a rival spirit ally for example in the following situation :

1 (engaged) + 1 (Ally) + 1 (short ranged) + 1 (Rival) = ! it is pretty difficult !

I keep in mind Noahjam325 that adv may trigger add effects (fire,...) or extra turn... ?

Tks

You can drop the Difficulty to 3 dice if you use a Staff or Circlet as your implement.

A Circlet is all but required for a creature Conjurer, as it makes Summon Ally free, as well as removing the need to concentrate on the spell (if you summoned a creature). Otherwise you have to spend 2 maneuvers per round maintaining and commanding the being (and thus cannot maintain concurrent summons).

Thank you for these precisions. ?

I miss out the subtleties.

If this is something your player wants to be the central focus of their character then it would be awesome to come up with a list of unique ways to spend Advantage/Triumph/Threat/Despair when summoning.

For example:

1 Advantage could increase the Soak, Melee Defence, or Ranged Defence by 1.

2 Advantage may extend the range of the summoned elementals attack.

3 Advantage could give the Attack a minor special quality such as Ensnair or Disorient

1 Triumph could give it Hover or Fly, or increase a characteristic by 1

2 Triumph could allow it to remain summoned until the end of the day.

1 Threat could lower its wounds or strain

2 Threat could restrict an attack somehow, less damage or shorter range

3 threat could lower a skill

1 Despair could lower a characteristic

2 Despair could make controlling the creature an action instead of a manoeuvre.

Yes !!! I copy that !!

Thank you Richardbuxton

I seem to remember the Old Elric Rpg had something similar for its Demon Summoning rules (As that was a big part of the Setting)

You started with a Base then "added" effects on to the demon - made it bigger, stronger ect - which increased the power it cost to summon and the difficulty of summoning it.

Might be worth trying to implement something similar into Genesys for summoning like Richardbuxton has done above .

I like the idea of linking the quality of the result to the quality of the conjured being, but I reccomend against utilizing a mechanic that requires always building the conjured being on the fly. It sounds good on paper, but in practice it has numerous flaws.

First being that it will slow down the game if you have to engage in a conjure-generation mini-game every time you cast Conjure. While that might be fun for the conjurer, it's generally not fun watching someone else build game elements.

Second, you actually lose free agency and consistancy, because you don't get to summon what you wanted, you summon the best thing you can 'afford' with the results you got. Heaven forbid you need to perform concurrent conjurations to fill-out a conjured minion group, or conjure a specific being or object, because it is nearly impossible to get the exact same thing twice in a row.

Third, the system breaks oddly when you start applying modifiers to the pool. For example, a summon at range is weakened by any Threat rolled on the extra difficulty die. Similarly a Grand Summon will likely end up weaker than a Medium Summon, despite being something like four times its size because of the increased difficulty.

Forth, Genesys uses exceptionally tight parameters, and even a single point permutation in an important statistic (like Brawn) would have a significant impact over the course of a battle.

I think it would be worth your time to instead sit down with the player and work out a few basic conjured profiles before game. I would say five profiles should cover most of a given conjurer's needs (one size 0 and 1 minion, and one size 1 through 3 rival each). Each should be built to be able to contribute to, but not outshine the party.

Once you (as GM) have some profiles to work with, I expect it would be fairly easy to invent a few result modifiers appropriate to the conjured being. However I would focus on temporary, tangential, or easily remembered benefits, and avoid changing the profile itself.

For example, Lina successfully casts Conjure Flame Spirit I without an Implement (Difficulty 3). Conjuring at short range an allied Sil-0 Minion with a 'Fire Bolt' ranged attack with Burn 1. A unique rule of the 'Conjure Flame Spirit' line of spells is that conjured flame spirits sometimes appear in an explosive conflageration (for better or worse):

"Either the player may spend [One Triumph] or the GM may spend [One Despair] from the spell's result to have everyone engaged with the flame spirit when it appears suffer a hit from the flame spirit's 'fire bolt' attack. If the player or GM does so, they may also spend [Two Advantage] or [Two Threat] respectively from the spell's result to activate the conjured beings' fire bolts' Burn quality."

This example might be too powerful, as I've yet to actually 'master the system. However in its defense note how it can also be activated by the GM too; making flame spirits somewhat indiscriminate and tempermental beings. Summoning them at range is more difficult (or requires a less optimal Implement than the druidic circlet), and you have to decide the target location before you know the check result. So it feels like it would be rather difficult to abuse the effect. As an added bonus everything you'd need to adjudicate the effect is already included in the profile or determined by the dice results.

I agree.

I should build first as you say, few basic spirit profiles (like Shadowrun setting; Earth, Air, Fire, Beast,...) :

Minion sil 0, 1 ; Rival 0,1,2 ... and depending on ADV/Threat Triumph/Despair or Strain cost in advance... it will add extra effect (disorient, extra time, extra loyalty toward the summoner.....

If i do that during the game as GM with the player, it's gonna be boring for the other players as you mentioned Cantriped.

? ? tks