Hi ! I juts have a quick question about Leebo - C3PO interaction.

Let's say Leebo defends, then uses 1 Calculation token to use C3PO.

Leebo says : After you defend or perform an attack, if you spent a calculate token, gain 1 calculate token.
C-3PO card says : Before rolling defense dice, you may spend 1 calculate token to guess aloud a number 1 or higher. If you do and you roll exactly that many Evade results, add 1 result.


"After you defend" on Leebo doesn't specify that the token has to be used for changing dice result, and, "before rolling defense dice" on C-3PO means (as I understand it) that we're on a timing when Leebo already is the defender.
So as I understand it, Leebo's ability could be used, regaining the Calculate token spent for C-3PO activation.



Then, second question, if after spending 1 Calculate for 3PO, Leebo uses another one for modding dice, does he regain both Calculation tokens?
In other words, does Leebo's ability proc once per token used, or once per attack/defense situation?

For question 1, it seems like C-3PO would indeed trigger Leebo's effect: It happens while Leebo is defending, and the calculate token is indeed spent. So, I'd say yes, after the attack, Leebo would get one back.

For question 2, Leebo's ability checks once per attack or defense; if you spent a calculate token (as in, more than zero calculate tokens), you gain one calculate token. Basically Leebo would proc once per attack or defense, not per calculate token.

1: The combo works.

2: No, the timing only allows for the ability to be used once.

By the way, don't use C3P0...

1 hour ago, muribundi said:

By the way, don't use C3P0... 

Why do you say that? He does seem a little overpriced, to be sure, but he's no longer a once-per-round unit... and on a 2-agility ship, 1 is usually the right odds call. I can see Leebo + Threepio as a viable combo.

Spending a calculate on C-3PO on a 2-dice ship like Leebo is mathematically very close, but I believe slightly worse, than just spending a calculate token for it's normal effect of turning an eye to an evade. So it's good do do when you're defending for the last time in a round, but otherwise, just save the calculate for an eye on a future roll.

26 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Spending a calculate on C-3PO on a 2-dice ship like Leebo is mathematically very close, but I believe slightly worse, than just spending a calculate token for it's normal effect of turning an eye to an evade. So it's good do do when you're defending for the last time in a round, but otherwise, just save the calculate for an eye on a future roll.

Except Leebo gets it back, so...

I think Threepio would be worth the cost, if he were still allowed to guess zero (to guarantee at least one evade). Now, though, I think Leebo is the only really viable option for him; The Droid Team-Up makes the cost of his guesses (spending a calculate token) a little less steep (because he'd get one calculate token back after the attack).

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Except Leebo gets it back, so...

Leebo gets one calculate back, but between spending on C-3PO and on normal Eye results, you might want more than one calculate token. Odds of C-3PO working is 2(3/8)(5/8) = 0.46875. Odds of being able to spend a calculate token are 2/8 = 0.25 per die, and with independence between the two dice Leebo rolls, that's 0.5 per defense. At least, that's what went through my head when I first saw C-3PO and thought he looked amazing on Leebo. At very least, Threepio provides two calculate tokens to Leebo, which seems really handy.

34 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Leebo gets one calculate back, but between spending on C-3PO and on normal Eye results, you might want more than one calculate token. Odds of C-3PO working is 2(3/8)(5/8) = 0.46875. Odds of being able to spend a calculate token are 2/8 = 0.25 per die, and with independence between the two dice Leebo rolls, that's 0.5 per defense. At least, that's what went through my head when I first saw C-3PO and thought he looked amazing on Leebo. At very least, Threepio provides two calculate tokens to Leebo, which seems really handy.

And you might want not to spend one except on 3po. Indeed I think it's more likely than not to get no eyeballs but I can't work the maths right now.

Leebo would get another calculate token back if it was a separate attack/defend instance but not the same one. The trigger is if you spend a calculate during the entire attack/defend and has no wording to track how many you spent, thus you always get 1 regardless of how many you spent. But its not once per game so do it again next attack/defend. Leebo/3P0 actually seems pretty viable and probably the ONLY 3P0 use that makes sense atm.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

And you might want not to spend one except on 3po. Indeed I think it's more likely than not to get no eyeballs but I can't work the maths right now.

Those are the maths above. (Hit)(NotHit)=(3/8)(5/8) or (NotHit)(Hit)=(5/8)(3/8) are the possible C-3PO triggers [(15+15)/64], (Focus)(NotFocus)=(2/8)(6/8), (NotFocus)(Focus)=(6/8)(2/8), (Focus)(Focus)=(2/8)(2/8), but double-focus can Calculated twice, so it should be double-counted [(12+12+4+4)/64].

That's 30/64 for C-3PO, compared to 32/64 for just spending calculate tokens. It's wicked close.

There's one big reason to consider Threepio, though... he has the now-rare ability to actually ADD an evade result.

That means, in your "spend two calculate" scenario, there are edge cases when Threepio has his two calculate tokens around, and guessing one could still earn you an evade-focus result (odds of about 1-in-6, or roughly 19% of the time), letting you spend that other token for THREE evades. Or, you also get the ability to make longshot "2" guesses in critical situations (about a 1-in-7 or 14% chance of success).

Yup. In many if not most cases using 3po stops you needing the second calc anyway because you already blocked.

14 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Those are the maths above. (Hit)(NotHit)=(3/8)(5/8) or (NotHit)(Hit)=(5/8)(3/8) are the possible C-3PO triggers [(15+15)/64], (Focus)(NotFocus)=(2/8)(6/8), (NotFocus)(Focus)=(6/8)(2/8), (Focus)(Focus)=(2/8)(2/8), but double-focus can Calculated twice, so it should be double-counted [(12+12+4+4)/64].

That's 30/64 for C-3PO, compared to 32/64 for just spending calculate tokens. It's wicked close.

Against a 2-hit attack, spending a calculate for C3PO effect let you take 0.78 hits on average, vs 0.81 if you spend that calculate token for modding dice.
It's close enough, but still in the favour of 3PO.

Now your choice may depend on the situation. With 3PO, you're more likely to avoid any damage from a 2-Hit attack (61% vs 33%), but it's 2 damage or nothing here.
Lets say you have only 2 hull left, then better take the dice modding option (only 14% chance of getting two hits against 39% with 3PO) to live one more round.

If we just get rid of the second calc token in the no-guess version, it drops to 28/64, which is just under the 30/64. Still wicked close either way.

Adding in also allowing Threepio to spend a second calc token... cases are EF FE - EB BE - FF FF - FB BF, with the EF and FE cases granting two evades. [2(6+6)+(9+9)+(4+4)+(6+6)]/64 = an average of 62/64 evades added from calculate tokens if you're willing to spend 2 calculate tokens after guessing 1.