8 minutes ago, Captain Ordo N-11 said:Officer that adds a support team slot similar to Tua.
That's a real tough decision between protecting your Brace or making sure you can go after the enemy, not sure what I'd pick.
Do VSDs need an overhaul?
14 minutes ago, Captain Ordo N-11 said:Officer that adds a support team slot similar to Tua. Or maybe a non unique title (crimson command?) that acts like engine techs.
Do... Do we really need speed 4 ISDs?
23 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:Do... Do we really need speed 4 ISDs?
It could be for Victories only
. Oh yeah, I guess the officer could end up a bad idea, but a victory only title that is similar to engine techs would work.
1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:Do... Do we really need speed 4 ISDs?
Oh yes please.
That's not too hard to get around though. Just restrict the officer to small or medium ships, or make it a victory star destroyer non unique title, like the task force titles for hammerheads
4 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:Do... Do we really need speed 4 ISDs?
Well Devastator did chase down the Tantive IV in the opening scene of a New Hope... now that I mention it I kind of wonder why the Devastator wasn't a speed related upgrade. Probably because it doesn't match the name, and a Speed 4 ISD is horrifying.
3 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:Well Devastator did chase down the Tantive IV in the opening scene of a New Hope... now that I mention it I kind of wonder why the Devastator wasn't a speed related upgrade. Probably because it doesn't match the name, and a Speed 4 ISD is horrifying.
I believe the commonly accepted explanation there is 'tractor beams'. And the Tantive IV obviously didn't have engine techs. And Leia wasn't the commander on the scene.
Because otherwise, why the Tantive IV didn't just spam nav commands and keep on adding distance, who knows...
19 minutes ago, xanderf said:I believe the commonly accepted explanation there is 'tractor beams'. And the Tantive IV obviously didn't have engine techs. And Leia wasn't the commander on the scene.
Because otherwise, why the Tantive IV didn't just spam nav commands and keep on adding distance, who knows...
It had not shields, 1 hull remaining, and that Crit that says you take damage if you go speed 2 or higher (Ruptured Engine)
Probably even that half your engineering, so even withbdial and token they couldn’t clear avdamage card...
In fact according to the short story “Raymus”, that’s kinda where they were at.
Ban Strategic Advisor for starters and all Medium ships become (more) viable again.
You want to do something bold : Ban flotillas. 3 out of the 4 existing mediums can act and shine as carriers (Quasar, VSD, AKmk2). Remove flotillas, and suddenly they become a necessity.
But we're not going to just remove a ship from the game... so, let's improve them instead.
I really don’t know what the answer to this is.
I used to say it’s good that every ship has a limitation but manoeuvre is so key that VSDs don’t appear overly competitive anymore, particularly at the price of an even modestly upgraded VSD 2.
So it seems like either-
a) do a title upgrade specific to VSD (ala 7th fleet) that offers some limited benefits or b) drops the price a bit to encourage use.
After a late night game yesterday I do think that a list designed around VSDs can work. I used this list against a double MC75 Raddus build and I think with some changes I could have won.
VSD Attempt
Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 393/400
Commander: Grand Admiral Thrawn
Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona
[ flagship ] Victory II-Class Star Destroyer(85 points)
- Grand Admiral Thrawn ( 32 points)
- 7th Fleet Star Destroyer ( 5 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 150 total ship cost
Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- 7th Fleet Star Destroyer ( 5 points)
- Captain Brunson ( 5 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 114 total ship cost
Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Hand of Justice ( 4 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 67 total ship cost
1 Whisper ( 20 points)
1 Zertik Strom ( 15 points)
1 TIE Phantom Squadron ( 14 points)
1 Tempest Squadron ( 13 points)
= 62 total squadron cost
My cousin had 4 activations vs my 3, but I simply stayed at Speed 0 until round 3, negating some of his advantages by being first. This was the toughest to crack VSDs I've ever made, taking over 2 rounds of double arcing MC75s before dying. I gave him plenty of damage in return, but I couldn't crack his shields.
Were you second player?
2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:Were you second player?
Yes and he chose Solar Corona. I didn't use my squadrons very well, especially because he didn't have any to stop mine. My difficulties were his ECMs constantly Bracing, and I believe that the lack of a Crit effect was a problem.
In the next iteration of this list I'm going to either have XI7s or HIEs to drill through his shields, and maybe Decimators to kill his flotillas and harass the MC75s.
Overall I enjoyed myself despite losing, in this game I'm not sure an ISD would have done better.
Something concerning. All of these "fixes" for the VSD are just making it more expensive. Given the current capabilities of the VSD, 73-85 points is too expensive, if you need to add all these fixes to make them work. Also every "fix" you install carries with it opportunity cost of not having another upgrade/title/officer in that slot.
VSD's are inherently flawed, and too expensive for what they bring to the table considering how constrained you are with them and how quickly the cost of "fixes" adds up.
I hope nobody thinks that VSDs are a weak ship as second player. Objective strength as second player is very strong.
Yesterday I played a Motti list with an expanded Launchers VSD I in it. This ship was able to follow and hunt down the enemy MC80 command very effectively. For me it was just another proof that VSDs are powerful ships, when using them in some roles like carriers or line-battleships.
And thats not a weakness, like mentioned before, because some other ships got their own tactical roles theyre really made for(and only really effective with playing that roles (TRC90)), too.
Edited by Jimbo2142Is it breaking the rules to post VSD lists in here? I figured it would be alright being related to the thread's topic, but I don't know for sure.
Anyways here's my revised double VSD list from earlier. I changed the Objectives and went from a modest bid to no bid because I wanted those XI7s, I think that those will be more helpful than the QBTs. The squadrons I went with this time will have more of an impact than the originals I think.
Thrawn Double VSDs Mk2
Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400
Commander: Grand Admiral Thrawn
Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions
Victory II-Class Star Destroyer(85 points)
- Grand Admiral Thrawn ( 32 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 146 total ship cost
Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Captain Brunson ( 5 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 110 total ship cost
Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Centicore ( 3 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 66 total ship cost
1 Darth Vader ( 21 points)
1 Zertik Strom ( 15 points)
1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)
1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
= 77 total squadron cost
5 hours ago, Piratical Moustache said:Is it breaking the rules to post VSD lists in here? I figured it would be alright being related to the thread's topic, but I don't know for sure.
Yeah, it's fine. Totally related to the topic.
On 9/28/2018 at 2:31 AM, xanderf said:I believe the commonly accepted explanation there is 'tractor beams'. And the Tantive IV obviously didn't have engine techs. And Leia wasn't the commander on the scene.
Because otherwise, why the Tantive IV didn't just spam nav commands and keep on adding distance, who knows...
Antilles was and he gives the same benefit providing nav tokens.
I guess some corrupted senator took those tokens and saved them somewhere else, maybe in a tax haven, Who knows?
The movie starts with the ISD shooting at the Tantive back arc. I'm guessing a critical went through. Got Ruptured Engine. Bad decision going down to speed one (especially when Antilles would have allowed to fix it in one turn) to avoid taking damage from speed > 1.
Sometimes, a whole trilogy's fate lies on one bad Armada decision!
Edited by Coranhann3 hours ago, Coranhann said:The movie starts with the ISD shooting at the Tantive back arc. I'm guessing a critical went through. Got Ruptured Engine. Bad decision going down to speed one (especially when Antilles would have allowed to fix it in one turn) to avoid taking damage from speed > 1.
Sometimes, a whole trilogy's fate lies on one bad Armada decision!
Two Crits. XX9s
Ruptured Engine and Engineering failure. Raymus couldn’t clear even with his token freebie
1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:Two Crits. XX9s
Ruptured Engine and Power failure. Raymus couldn’t clear even with his token freebie
FTFY
1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:FTFY
Thank you
Shutting down the main reactor certainly sounds like a power failure after all.
Edited by Drasnighta