4 hours ago, Herr Style said:

If VSDs get a long range ACM, no one will ever take a VSD 2, which was the upgrade to the VSD 1. Just my thoughts.

The example card takes the offensive and ordinance slot, so no upgrades like ACM, APT, or EL at long range. If its not discard I'd probably limit it to 1 attack per round, but I think it might be able to be made balanced.

Sorry my bad! When I typed in ACM I meant the new card “Advanced Concussion Missiles”!

So you now have 3 red and 3 black dice at long range for 81 points. The slot for QBT is still available so for 2 less points, you have a possible better build than a VSD 2 with DCAPs.

Im thinking that maybe a title card with a Kuat upgrade that gives it thrusters to help with the abysmal turning, but no speed increase? (Head now down behind the parapet lol).

Hmmm, thinking about it, how about “Bow Thrusters”, gives you an extra click of yaw at the end but costs a turbo laser slot (that way you aren’t getting something for nothing)?

So the choice is QBT (or something else) or Bow Thrusters?

3 hours ago, Captain Ordo N-11 said:

If   its not discard I'd probably limit it to 1 attack per round, but I think it might be able to be made balanced.

This is an example of my brain not directing my hands properly, I did mean to make it only 1 attack per round, but forgot to type it.

The question is what price is appropriate for this upgrade, 12pts would be appropriate for a MC75 I think but that would make a VSD-1 the same cost as a 2 before any other upgrades are added.

Forgot the mention the Raider I with this upgrade could become a sniper sort of like the TRC90, but paying 12pts for 2 black dice at long range feels overpriced.

Nevermind again, a CR90 with TRC is 51pts for guaranteed 2 damage. A Raider I with Ord. Experts and nuACMs costs 60pts. Maybe somebody else could do the cost/damage statistics, but 12pts seems right to me now.

I think we are trying to make the VSD something that it wasn’t. I know it’s a hypothetical science fiction space ship, but at the end of the day it’s from a different age compared to other ships.

What is everyone’s beef with the VSD? Is it lack of firepower, or manoeuvrability? Whatever it is, that is what needs fixing to make it a staple ship. Personally, I believe it’s manoeuvrability. Not 100% on a speed increase, but maybe yaw, but obviously at a price.

6 minutes ago, Herr Style said:

I think we are trying to make the VSD something that it wasn’t. I know it’s a hypothetical science fiction space ship, but at the end of the day it’s from a different age compared to other ships.

What is everyone’s beef with the VSD? Is it lack of firepower, or manoeuvrability? Whatever it is, that is what needs fixing to make it a staple ship. Personally, I believe it’s manoeuvrability. Not 100% on a speed increase, but maybe yaw, but obviously at a price.

Yaw can be worked around with practice and/or Moff Jerjerrod, firepower is good, what is very difficult is engaging the enemy on your own terms as first player. Most ships simply increase speed to achieve this but the the VSD cannot. Unless you are second player with strong objectives using the VSD feels like an uphill battle.

14 minutes ago, Herr Style said:

What is everyone’s beef with the VSD? Is it lack of firepower, or manoeuvrability? Whatever it is, that is what needs fixing to make it a staple ship. Personally, I believe it’s manoeuvrability. Not 100% on a speed increase, but maybe yaw, but obviously at a price.

4 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Case closed m’lud! ?

On 10/6/2018 at 6:14 PM, Herr Style said:

Case closed m’lud! ?

Not really though. Everyone is forgetting about opportunity cost. There are quite a few more commander you might want to use but can't because jj is the "fix" for vsds.

11 hours ago, Sybreed said:

Not really though. Everyone is forgetting about opportunity cost. There are quite a few more commander you might want to use but can't because jj is the "fix" for vsds.

Very true. Thrawn is quite good as you can stack his dials as nav commands and still do what you want with the ship ones. For 3 turns anyways.