6Kilgs said:

Heh, exactly ... to the first part.

As you so rightly mentioned, however, since the IG's player wasn't playing his normal character, it might be a little less confrontational to just ... take his stuff. Then you can always return it when the normal IG player returns.

"What rule violations? The red dot site? Sounds like that is something the gm allows in his game and that is that. One cannot pull "rule violations" on the gms house rules - creating house rulings is his right. As others have pointed out, everything else on the Assassins side seems legit."

That and the called shot with Full-Auto. If the GM allows it as per house ruling fine, but if it's not a house rule, the Guardsman player should have SEIZED on that, like flies to a corpse.

Lasers said:

For the love of the God-Emperor, why?!? The game is not a competition between them to see who can kill the most enemies first. Why does it matter if the GM overlooked or changed a rule?

Lol. Just saying, if the Guardsman must have and act upon a grudge, that's something he should have done, not that I personally condone it of course!

The buildings were about 5 floors high. So the roof would have been the 6th.

We even looked up Parkor (RL Free Running.) After the the game so we could get an idea of how long it would of taken to jump that sort of distance which is less than a few seconds so I should of been able to do it in game time easy.

But yes he was still arguing last night (The game session that this took place in happened almost 2 months ago now. It all started because he said he wanted to make an Ogryn for the next game and the GM said no because he didn't think it would fit in with the rest of the group. The guy then started complaining about what my character had done saying it was ok for the group to have a "Combat monster" jumping about like a Jack in a box. I was like "What? I thought we'd settled this." I think he's decided that he doesn't want to play with us any more. lol

Narissa said:

Good riddance then. Sorry when a player feels they need to leave over a disagreement, but if it was that long ago.... LET IT GO!!!

Since they can't, leaving is probably for the best. Oh, and ogryns would be SO broken in DH.... Love to try playing one though.

WHAT DO OGRYN DO NOW?!

Well, that changes things somewhat. Jumping down 5 floors is not something you do without a lot of pain (see the section on falling damage, count every floor as about 3m). Even if your superbly trained killing-machine ninja-body could take the damage, I doubt the bike could.

But then, one should never let things like physics and real-life get in the way of extremely cool scenes

Darth Smeg said:

To clarify (as i'm the ref in the game ), the assassin was on the "roof" of the building opposite (about 12 meters away).

The bike they were leaping to (after running) was "locked" via spikes to the window of the 4th floor, so the jump/fall was little more than 12 meters across and 2 meters down.

The assassin made a Lot of dice rolling for skills to get across safe and land on a "small" space, all of which were passed by over 4 degrees of success (lots of 01-09 rolls for most of the night by everyone except the guardsman player.. lol)

LeBlanc

The Ogryn rules for "more than human" are ok, but frankly they are written for Combat heavy games where everyone is kill-bunnies-a-go-go.

Even then the Ogryn should be about rank 2 when the rest are rank 6 considering the perks they get (pc Ogryns are the BonEad sort, double Toughness bonus against lots of weapons, double strength bonus in mellee)

Bom: Catfall ftw!

Bombernoy said:

Oh Yes Catfall and Acrobatics are abilities that I took as soon as I could.

It was only 2 floors(ish) and It did make a really great scene

Velvetears said:

Wait, he jumped 12 meters? 39.4 feet? Considering the world record is 8.9 meters (29.4 feet). Did this guy have some unnatural bonus going on to assist him?

We've got an assassin who can pull that sort of thing off.

Of course, he's rank 7, has Unnatural Agilityx2 (hooray for mutants!) and nearly maxed out Agility at 50, but hey, in the system it's possible once you reach those 'heroic' levels.

Jack of Tears said:

I was picturing a taller building. With a 5-stories building, it makes more sense.

LeBlanc13 said:

Yep, I don't want someone who sees RPGs as a "who's got the best killing machine" contests in my games either. This sort of things is what MMORPGs are for

Kyorou said:

Jack of Tears said:

Um...

I think he meant feet, as it was described to me that I was trying to jump a street not a city block. (Or 2.)

Velvetears said:

I got 04 to land on the bike

out of curiosity, what age is your gaming group?

unless that guardsman is very young, I'd say he has serious behavioral problems.

The IG players in his early 30's now...

But yes, i do use a few house rules for any game i play.

1: cinematic when it needs to be

2: as diceless as possible, more on the ROLE than the ROLL when it comes to play. Combat being on of ther major exceptions, you needs to rolls the dices..

3: (a pretty specific change to the Jump rules as presented)

Agility not Strength for jumping.

May be augmented by the Athletics Skill

Standing Jump Meters = to half AG score, minimum of 1 meter + half a meter per 5 AG check passed by

Short Run & Jump = AG x1.5 distance in meters, minimum 2 meters, + half a meter per 5 AG check passed by

Long Run & Jump = AG x2 distance in meters. minimum of 2 meters, + 1 meter per 5 AG check passed by

Anything thing rolled under 10 = looks awesome, it happens regardless, and looks cool.

All the rolls the character needed to make were all under 10 (about 3-4 different rolls i made her do for it mind you), and she has a good AG/Acrobatics stats to boot (42/52 respectively)

Just with a successful Acrobatics check passed by 2 degrees she'd have made it, but that would have made it with a bit to spare, as it was she passed with the amount of under 10's she rolled

Effect = cinematic & awesome n stuff, making 3 players punch the air and one grumble that he didnt get to shoot the bike and kill the eldar and save the world and get the girl and the loot and l33t epik skillz etc..

When it comes to the techpreist doing his thing, he often accheives similar effects with the things He can do, mind you not leaping from roof to roof, but with things only he's able to do in the group, same with the face/scum character, and same with the no longer played by a player adept of xenology..

Velvetears said:

Hmm that brought images of our Tech-Priest leaping gracefully from roof top to roof top. Well trying getting halfway and splatting into the mud when gravity begins to work on all his Augments.

But if the IG had brought his Adept to the party We would of talked to the other Xeno and got info on their location instead of having him use a NPC.

That said I remember him using His IG Sniper to shoot your Psyker in the shoulder when he took it apon his self to decide that all Psykers are bad regardless of Sanctioning. (We have two Groups with our Tech-Priest Running the other game so Velvetears can play his Psyker.)

Ok I know my Cleric also shot him. But she knows that he can stop the bullets from her bolt pistol gun. That and She and the Psyker were trying to scare some upstart kids by proving that pulling a gun on us wouldn't work, whilst at the same time showing that they could use people like us in their gang. (We were under cover after all.)

Yes, he thuoght i was about to go "all wibbly and start spawning demons n stuff..." thankfully a judicious use of regenerate & a fate point made it look like nothing had happened other than some light flared out of me, only further enhancing the freakyness of "see kids, guns dont kill people, WE do.." moment

Very cool and cinematic encounter.
With that said ...

1) The acrobatics leap to land on the bike should probably have been a full-action. At the very least, a Half action (although, with the distances involved, I would have said a full-action). It's technically a movement action either way.

2) Dodging the blast depends on the area affected by the blast. There are rules for dodging area attacks. If the explosion area is larger than the Assasin's move (4m? 5m?) then the assassin would not be able to dodge at all. I probably, as a GM, would have imposed a penalty to the dodge check (-10 most liekly) because the Assassin is sitting on the bike, and not in a good position to make a dodge. Not to mention, there could be a penalty should Fatigue been assigned from the jump/landing.

3) Quick draw only allows the drawing of ONE item as a free action. The Assassin could draw 1 pistol, not both, as a free action. This means only firing 1 pistol on full-auto. (already mentioned by others)

4) Called action, even to the body, is a -20. (already mentioned by others)

5) Red dot sight only gives the +10 for single shots, not semi or full auto IIRC.(already mentioned by others)

6) The DE should have been able to make a dodge check against the Assassin's attack, and remember for every degree of success on a dodge he can avoid one additional hit from a single attack, including semi and full auto. So, we all know how bad Eldar are at dodging, right (cuz they have such horrible agility)? So, the roll to hit was 34-10(short range, other bonuses cancel out b/c of points #4 & 5) = 24. BS of 44, so 2 degrees of success and therefore 1+2=3 hits. Expect the DE to probably dodge 2 of those with an average roll. Is the DE wearing armor (typically xeno mesh)? That one autogun hit won't cut a DE in half. Heck, with a bad roll it might not even do *any* damage. Even 2 hits from an autogun, barring a successful Fury, probably won't put the DE into critical table. For cinematic effect, the GM might have just narrated the effect of cleaving the DE in twain, but actual rolls for damage and criticals probably wouldn't have resulted in that outcome.

Edit: after reading more of the thread... Why on earth do you house rule that jumping distance is based on Ag? I can see adding an Ag/Acrobatics test to actually land on the bike... but to get the necessary distance is, and should be, a Strength test. I don't care how agile you are, if you haven't got the leg muscles to jump with you aren't going to go far.
Then, looking at the rest of your house rules for it, you increase the distance you can realistically jump? This is part of the issue, I think, and seems to unfairly (and unrealistically) benefit Agility focused characters.

Yes, the IG player is being a bit immature. You might want to see if that's just a personality thing, or if the IG player is feeling left out because none of the house rules benefit his character. If the IG player doesn't get opportunities to accomplish cool cinematic things like the other players, it would be more reasonable why he seems a bit bitter.

dvang said:

This doesn't stop the character from using two Free Actions to quick draw both weapons for a full-auto burst.

dvang said:

dvang said:

dvang said:

Thankfully the IG won a perception check, to inform everyone and sit-rep them, the group as a whole got a free half action each, the assassins was to start with a short run and leap before initiative proper starts up, she was essentially (after lots of dice rolls) in flight

dvang said:

The assassin landed (with an 02) on the back seat behind the eldar, after lots of dice rolling (passing every thing with plenty to spare)

She passed her dodge check (by about 40) and the explosion was about the same as a Bolter would do, micro explosion, on the underside of the bike so no big boomy ball of fire there to dodge, though she still did manage to dodge through the window right next to her, which was within her move allowance for dodging

dvang said:

QD is a "Free Action" on which, as other have commented on, there's no limit to having. As the character has 2 weapon wielder, Ambidextrous, Lightning Reflexes, so it was mooted by the group that "yup 2 guns pulled at the same time's more than fine"

dvang said:

*nods* this i'm aware of heat of the moment and all that

dvang said:

*nods* with what she rolled thats a moot point thankfully, it means i get to slap her wrist *turns to the right, slaps Narissa's wrist for not remembering that then when he sees them will slap the rest of the groups collective wrist as well for the same thing *

Either way, it was point blank (under 3 meters) as opposed to short, so the bonus is the same so all is good with the world once more

dvang said:

Eldar Cultist outfit consisted of essentially a Mankini, Nipple tassles, a couple of knives and Big Smile.

The one inside the room was *ahem* Daemonically enlarged.. and wearing much less.

Chappy on the bike failed his perception check, and rolled a 89 on his agility to not fall off, very much a fail so off he went and broke his legs for his troubles..

dvang said:

It's a game, realism gets left at the door when people start tossing round lightning bolts and having daemons explode from their heads on a couple fo bad dice rolls..

The jump, as many have been in our game, was considered much more of an acrobatics thing, i do still allow (if they wish) to use the standard Strength and 3 meters basic, no ones wanted to so far.

dvang said:

The IG character was a stop over part as the player had left his actual character at home, another player knocked up a quick (5 minute jobby) 2k character which was squashed in for the session for hi to play, a merc/IG was the easiest thing to put in location wise and the group may have needed some additional fire power (though they steered away from the Mass Combat action scene thankfully, and even managed to not summon a Daemonform in to reality whch would have really put a crimp on their day..

Sadly this player had a habit of making pretty much the same character over and over (seemed to die every other session, and was always a psyker hating tech preist loathing dyed in the wool CE Fighter type) regardless of what class he played.

His last character was written for him, to be what the group had no experience of, a XenoArcheologist (from Inq Handbook), who knew Lots of stuff, allowing the player to have a chance to really shine with obscure knowledge (even if he kept getting the lore wrong most of the time and arguing witht he group about it even when books stating stuff were put in front of him). Much of the last mission was designed for his and another new character, a Face type of scum, so lots of Lore/Records and lots of schmoozing.

Thankfully he's not part of the group any more, much it seems to every ones pleasure.

Our groups other ref (we alternate games, he runs a game, then i run one) isnt at all bothered this other guys no longer playing and is keep to get going again after all the kerfuffle.

Lovely word Kerfuffle.

The world needs people saying out loud more often..

Kerfuffle.