Rules say that something is at range x if any part of the squadron is within that range band.... so sqds can be at two ranges at the same time.

And in terms of the Center post vs closest point dot, this is most pertinent for Squadron vs Ship attacks (and vice versa).

2 minutes ago, RapidReload said:

Rules say that something is at range x if any part of the squadron is within that range band.... so sqds can be at two ranges at the same time.

However, although the squadron itself may be at 2 ranges on that technically— YOU ONLY KNOW (measure) to one point while attacking.

And that is the closest point.

... This is an old argument, solved via email responses with Devs, and perhaps even the FAQ. There is no pertinent argument on it anymore 🙂

4 minutes ago, Astrodar said:

In terms of Snipe, you definitely have to be beyond distance 1 in order to use. You must be at distance 2, and when measuring, you measure from closest point to closest point. This means if the closest point is at range 1, then you cannot Snipe, even if your 'back side' is in the distance 2 band.

I was going by the "unofficial rules" thread on these forums:

Snipe (squadron ability)

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

However, although the squadron itself may be at 2 ranges on that technically— YOU ONLY KNOW (measure) to one point while attacking.

And that is the closest point.

... This is an old argument, solved via email responses with Devs, and perhaps even the FAQ. There is no pertinent argument on it anymore 🙂

Dont think it was faqd, might be wrong though. As the rules are quite clear in that regard, and LoS does not relate to distance measurements, I would assume it to be faqd if it was so.

Honestly, whatever devs say in other media, if it is not in the faqd rules, and the normal rules are clear, I guess I would not easily accept a TO claiming anything to the contrary.

1 minute ago, RapidReload said:

Dont think it was faqd, might be wrong though. As the rules are quite clear in that regard, and LoS does not relate to distance measurements, I would assume it to be faqd if it was so.

Honestly, whatever devs say in other media, if it is not in the faqd rules, and the normal rules are clear, I guess I would not easily accept a TO claiming anything to the contrary.

Sure, I wont argue with you.

i mean, who am I to know these things anyway?

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Sure, I wont argue with you.

i mean, who am I to know these things anyway?

Excellent, I see we reached a consensus.

In seriousness, you cannot claim rule superiority based on the reason “I say so“, or “someone told me“. The rules are written for a reason.

Just now, RapidReload said:

Excellent, I see we reached a consensus.

In seriousness, you cannot claim rule superiority based on the reason “I say so“, or “someone told me“. The rules are written for a reason.

And there are rules discussions, feedback, and OFFICIAL RESPONSES as well, including a feedback and rules question link.

Use it.

As we did.

The snipe thing feels wrong to me, but I can't spot a rule that prevents it...

By the same logic though, couldn't I choose to use an evade token at close range if any portion of my base was at medium? I could similarly claim to be "at" medium range, no?

9 minutes ago, Zamalekite said:

I was going by the "unofficial rules" thread on these forums:

Fair enough. I hope I did not come off rude by any means. It sounds like it was a fun game, and if there was a discrepancy in this rule, it wouldn't have changed the outcome.

I very much disagree with that reading of the rule, as Snipe takes effect only when attacking, and you measure attack from closest to closest. By the same ruling Evade Tokens and the new Krennic card run into big issues.

That is why we got the answer we did.

23 minutes ago, Astrodar said:

In terms of Snipe, you definitely have to be beyond distance 1 in order to use. You must be at distance 2, and when measuring, you measure from closest point to closest point. This means if the closest point is at range 1, then you cannot Snipe, even if your 'back side' is in the distance 2 band.

That was my assumption as well, I just couldn't recall a set of rules to base it on.

8 minutes ago, RapidReload said:

Excellent, I see we reached a consensus.

In seriousness, you cannot claim rule superiority based on the reason “I say so“, or “someone told me“. The rules are written for a reason.

Hahahahaha

Yes. Argue with the guy who answers all the rules question in the rules forum.

Sily not to faq this. But I agree that there is also no distinction between range and distance in the definition of “at“ in the rules. I also think that snipe could easily be changed to allow for the target sqd being in between 1/2.

Im not arguing that he is wrong. A competitive game should not be ruled based on forum threads is what I am saying. Just for fun boardgames, sure. But something that organizes a “world cup“ should have a clearly defined rules document. Why not add this to the faq if it is “thus well known“.

And, I am sorry - but being that I am a TO of the VWC and Marshal of the VAT - you can accept my ruling or not - but it is my ruling, and it is what the tournament would and will be bound under.

I am not playing in the VWC, but all the power to you sir :-). All hail the Emperor. *out*

18 minutes ago, Zamalekite said:

regarding los squad to ship it is actually closest part of base to the hull and isn't always geometrically same as from center of base. Thankfully neither point mattered in that game anyway!

Erm. The point on a circle that is closest to a point outside the circle is the point of intersection between circle and a line from outside point to a center of that circle. Therefore it doesnt matter if the measurement is done from the center of the squadron or from the closest point on its base - the result is guaranteed to be the same. And LOS from squadron to ship should be done from the closest point on squadron base to the yellow dot on the ship's target hull zone (RRG p.7)

Where's the best place to read up on rules points like the snipe question? Is that "unofficial rules" thread kept up to date? Someone else in the game also posted in support of snipe working at distance two, can't remember who.

7 minutes ago, Zamalekite said:

Where's the best place to read up on rules points like the snipe question? Is that "unofficial rules" thread kept up to date? Someone else in the game also posted in support of snipe working at distance two, can't remember who.

Generally a quick search of the rules forum is all what most need.

Wevevtried maintaining posts, but it works best when there’s one, and there’s no easy way to get things pinned, or submitted to an FAQ - often, things are missed or excluded from an FAQ because they are, like this, for lack of a better term, “mostly agreed upon”.

Which is why it’s best to ask, or submit feedback, or respond if the TO/Marshal asks if there’s any questions needing answering beforehand.

This is on my explicit list now, so I will maintain it forward, starting with the VWC.

Even if I’m not online in Vassal, as TO, I am accessible - PM me and you’ll get a response as quick as possible. Discord also works.

14 minutes ago, PT106 said:

Erm. The point on a circle that is closest to a point outside the circle is the point of intersection between circle and a line from outside point to a center of that circle. Therefore it doesnt matter if the measurement is done from the center of the squadron or from the closest point on its base - the result is guaranteed to be the same. And LOS from squadron to ship should be done from the closest point on squadron base to the yellow dot on the ship's target hull zone (RRG p.7)

But you're measuring you two different things. It's closest point to the hull zone, not closest point to the los dot. Then determine LOS from that point to the LOS dot on the ship.

I'd prefer it to be dot-to-dot. It's a lot easier to measure and also gives squads a better angle to shoot and I'm a squad player. Happy to play that way in our game but I don't think that's the rule.

2 minutes ago, Zamalekite said:

But you're measuring you two different things. It's closest point to the hull zone, not closest point to the los dot. Then determine LOS from that point to the LOS dot on the ship.

I'd prefer it to be dot-to-dot. It's a lot easier to measure and also gives squads a better angle to shoot and I'm a squad player. Happy to play that way in our game but I don't think that's the rule.

Yup. From the RRG:

When tracing line of sight to or from a squadron, trace the line using the point of the squadron's base that is closest to the opposing squadron or hull zone.

11 minutes ago, Zamalekite said:

But you're measuring you two different things. It's closest point to the hull zone, not closest point to the los dot. Then determine LOS from that point to the LOS dot on the ship.

I'd prefer it to be dot-to-dot. It's a lot easier to measure and also gives squads a better angle to shoot and I'm a squad player. Happy to play that way in our game but I don't think that's the rule.

Ah. Agreed on this.

From the tournament rules p.12:

If the end of a measured range or distance falls on the border line between two ranges or distances, count the measurement as the closer range or distance.

Does that help?

At least with squad to squad it does effectively mean you can measure dot to dot as the bases are round!