I saw that.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm following what the cards say I can do, right?

1: Roark a Tala to I7
2:Tala is I7 and now at the engagment phase I choose another friendly at R1 and he treats his Initiative the same as mine (I7), etc.

Where are you seeing the part where it tells me I'm limited to Swarm Tactics a ship only to the printed Initiative value?

1 minute ago, RebelProfundity said:

This won't work though, because "Second Edition" format rules only allow 2.0 Wave 1 Expansions and the Core. HWK's and Z's are not included as possibilities for list building.

This is confusing to me.

If I'm playing in a limited format where only Wave 0 (Saw/Reaper), Wave 1 and Core cards and ships are allowed, then yes, you're right. But otherwise? If the conversion kits aren't forbidden to be used in play, do my shenanigans work?

"Engages at initiative 7" notequal "having initiative 7"

How would you read this out of the rules?

1 minute ago, Force Majeure said:

I saw that.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm following what the cards say I can do, right?

1: Roark a Tala to I7
2:Tala is I7 and now at the engagment phase I choose another friendly at R1 and he treats his Initiative the same as mine (I7), etc.

Where are you seeing the part where it tells me I'm limited to Swarm Tactics a ship only to the printed Initiative value?

"it engages at Initiative 7 instead of its standard initiative value this phase" and "treat its initiative as equal to yours until the end of the round". Roark is letting 1 ship engage at I7, but he is not changing your initiative value printed on your card.

Ok. I will defer you your understanding of the rules.

I don't like it, but I will accept it.

It makes sense now that I slow down.

Roark allows me to engage at I7. It does not convert my Initiative to 7, and that's where my wicked little plan falls apart...

32 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

This is confusing to me.

If I'm playing in a limited format where only Wave 0 (Saw/Reaper), Wave 1 and Core cards and ships are allowed, then yes, you're right. But otherwise? If the conversion kits aren't forbidden to be used in play, do my shenanigans work?

I should have said that your list "wouldn't work" as an answer to OP's question about countering the swarm in that specific limited format.

The wording of the new cards does seem to have made the original combo less than likely to work now.

http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/ship_durability/?d=AQAAAAIAgBE&a=AwI

The best option I'm seeing for rebels is Norra. She is one of the least likely to disintegrate against the swarm if she can get to range 1, but she's very slow. Veteran turret gunner helps work around iden, and bombs are great if you make it past the first engagement.

The problems I'm seeing are: how do you get her to range 1, and who do you fly with her? 3 Deadman partisan U-Wings? I'd love a tractor beam turret for Norra to suck a TIE in close and keep her safe

Bombs strike me as a good answer - and with the limited pool we're looking at here, that pretty much means Y-wings or the Andrasta .

4 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Bombs strike me as a good answer - and with the limited pool we're looking at here, that pretty much means Y-wings or the Andrasta .

The problem is that bombs only counter swarms when they are tragedy sim'ed, because otherwise you're torn apart before you can even drop them. So in the 2nd ed. format, they aren't really an option.

I have been reading some tourney feedback on swarms recently and well.. they are not leading at all. Reports are saying around 2 out of 10 is some kind of swarm. Seems that traditional tie swarms are being out-jousted or bombed to death.

56 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

The problem is that bombs only counter swarms when they are tragedy sim'ed, because otherwise you're torn apart before you can even drop them. So in the 2nd ed. format, they aren't really an option.

There are ways, there are definitely ways.

15 minutes ago, william1134 said:

I have been reading some tourney feedback on swarms recently and well.. they are not leading at all. Reports are saying around 2 out of 10 is some kind of swarm. Seems that traditional tie swarms are being out-jousted or bombed to death.

Yeah, in Extended format the TIE Swarms are behind the curve as there's some proper overpowered nonsense.

In Second Edition format it'll be different.

Hmmm, sorry im a bit confused with this extended vs second edition. I thought extended is what we should be using and "second edition" is simply the core set and wave 1.

I don't know why people would limit themselves to only wave 1 ships and what is the point of all this anyways? We bough the conversion kits at great expensive.

7 minutes ago, SOTL said:

There are ways, there are definitely ways.

Emon Azzamen isn't a bad call - the Firespray is, 'in scope'. You still can't fling bombs ahead of you, but a medium base with a white boost isn't forced to attack a swarm head-on, and you can throw them out sideways to your course

Boba Fett is a pretty good answer to swarms, too - I remember trying to deal with him with a TIE swarm when he first came out (for scum). Add in Fearless, and he's pretty good at a head on crunch.

Boba is no better than a generic Firespray against swarms. He wants to avoid R1 as they get more from adding a red dice than he gets from rerolling the dice he has.

Bounty Hunters have Reinforce. It's all you need to not die to the Swarm.

On 9/14/2018 at 1:10 PM, SOTL said:

But just one thing: Fenn is ok vs the Swarm but Boba isn't any better than a generic bounty hunter really as even with his rerolls he doesn't want to get to R1. The TIEs get more from an extra red dice than Boba gets from rerolling the dice he's got.

Yeah, I think Azzameen would be a better deal than Boba vs Swarms. I'll test both (we have a TIE Swarmer guy here) and see which one wins out at pest removal

I may miss something, but I would definitely bring ywings with proton bomb. It takes only one lucky guess to deal insane crits and probably handicap heavily the box swarm.

Grey squadron are very cheap, I would bring two with proton bomb only, no turret. And I would bring eevan as his hability allow him or a friend to add a dice for Each defence on the phase. this can clearly annoy the swarm if you choose wisely. Stick to them shields upgrades ( for friendly bomb protection) and you still have 71 PTS to spend on turret, regen droid and another ship ( naked wedge is my take).

What do you think? 3 ywings with Evan and shields should survive a joust long enough to drop the crits? Or the new swarm is mobile enough to dodge and burn those rebels scum?

Since no-one mentioned it thus far:

"Fight fire with fire"

Scum:

Drea Renthal (Y-wing)
-Dorsal turret, R4 Astromech 46 pts

-6x Z95 Headhunter 144 pts

(season to taste with the 10 pts left)

12 minutes ago, Elkerlyc said:

Since no-one mentioned it thus far:

"Fight fire with fire"

Scum:

Drea Renthal (Y-wing)
-Dorsal turret, R4 Astromech 46 pts

-6x Z95 Headhunter 144 pts

(season to taste with the 10 pts left)

There are no Z-95s in Second Edition format.

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

Boba is no better than a generic Firespray against swarms. He wants to avoid R1 as they get more from adding a red dice than he gets from rerolling the dice he has.

He is better in range 1 than a generic Firespray.

But, that said, I agree that he still doesn't want to joust a swarm (as he doesn't get as much benefit from range 1 as they do in a head on pass) but he does want to be in range 1. Having been on the receiving end, I can assure you he's a nightmare to deal with, especially since he still gets multiple die rerolls, not just 'one die if any enemy are at range 1', and he's not a bad 'rest of the squad' if you want to face a swarm.

I still think Emon played conservatively (well, everyone has to play conservatively against a swarm) is not a bad plan, and I'd definitely pick him before Fett.

Outside the restricted-to-waves format, he also has the option of a gruddam cloaking device now, which makes him even more annoying (not strictly relevant, though)

Yeah, if you're going to fly a Firespray badly you're better off having Boba as he might bail you out a bit.

I'd rather spend those 14pts elsewhere, though.

• Bounty Hunter - Unkar Plutt, Proton Bombs, Marauder, Han Solo, Deadman's Switch
• Bounty Hunter - Rigged Cargo Chute, Seismic Charges
• Zealous Recruit

Both roll up and reinforce. You want them to pick on the Han Gunner one, which they will because it's got Protons and Han Gunner and stuff. That's fine, he's the sacrificial lamb.

Next turn BH#2 drops him Seismic Charges, then throws the RCC out behind him. That's an obstacle for the swarm but it's also going to explode from the Seismic Charge. BH#1 drops his Proton Bomb then does a slow green fwd to clear stress, and as he's already damaged he may accidentally on purpose blow up to the Seismic Charge and Proton Bomb (with Unkar's help if necessary). The TIE swarm now flies into a massive explosion.

Zealous Recruit just films it all happening on Facebook Live for the lols.

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

There are no Z-95s in Second Edition format.

No clue what you mean by this.

I see Z95 AF4 Headhunters in the official FFG app. @24 points each...

[edit] I think I get it. I wa sunder the assumption you meant the 2.0 edition as a whole. But apparently you seem to want to handicap yourselves by opting for the extremely limited listbuilding as offered by '2nd ed.". Why would you? Go with 'Extended" and play the game as it is supposed to be in its full glory!

I’m sure you can beat swarms with quite a lot of things as long as you don’t joust.

Try to get them into areas where they can’t fit, start bumping etc, try to arc dodge them with higher pilot skill.

I haven’t tried it but flying the swarm seems more difficult than people seem to be assuming.

We’ll see how things play out, should be interesting!

35 minutes ago, Elkerlyc said:

No clue what you mean by this.

I see Z95 AF4 Headhunters in the official FFG app. @24 points each...

[edit] I think I get it. I wa sunder the assumption you meant the 2.0 edition as a whole. But apparently you seem to want to handicap yourselves by opting for the extremely limited listbuilding as offered by '2nd ed.". Why would you? Go with 'Extended" and play the game as it is supposed to be in its full glory!

Expectation is that Extended events will only occasionally be supported by FFG OP so we need to get practicing with Second Edition as it's going to be the 'main' format for Store Champs etc.