On the Scum side, Emon with Proton Bombs seems like a decent option. Lots of areas to fling bombs where the TIEs can't avoid them.

5 hours ago, SOTL said:

Second Edition rules are only cards from wave 1 sets (plus Reaper, Saws, Lando Falcon). Traj Sim is not in the pool.

You mean in the Non-Extended version.

5 hours ago, SOTL said:

Second Edition rules are only cards from wave 1 sets (plus Reaper, Saws, Lando Falcon). Traj Sim is not in the pool.

Have we got official word that the Second Edition squad building rules will be what we have to use for official tournaments?

25 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

You mean in the Non-Extended version.

The format is called 'Second Edition'.

5 minutes ago, SOTL said:

The format is called 'Second Edition'.

Gotcha. Awful name.

Should be called Wave 1 Only or something like that.

2 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Gotcha. Awful name.

Should be called Wave 1 Only or something like that.

Long term, "Extended Edition" will disappear once the conversion kit ships have been re-released, leaving just "Second Edition". So I think calling it Second Edition is probably the better option.

3 hours ago, vladamex said:

I also like the fact that the Tie Swarm is a strong list archetype. And I know that they are hard to fly effectively.

Still, I thought we can discuss some of the ways to counter play the swarms using just the ships/cards allowed by the Second Edition rules.

Especially from the perspective of the Rebels since they seem to be in the toughest spot IMO.

Hey @Tbetts94 any suggestions from your end based on your testing/games?

Luke is kind of immune, I got Luke Range 1 of 5 Ties, did two shields. Only reason why I ended up getting half of Luke is because he went over a rock took a damage and I blocked him the rest of the game so he couldn't repair it, he didn't have Supernatural which would have made it a lot harder. Anything that is immune to blocking like Supernatural Force Users. Adv Sensors is good versus Tie Swarm, Quadjumpers are super annoying for a Tie Swarm, and Tragedy Simulator is also its enemy. For strictly Wave 1 stuff, Tie Swarm is most likely the best list and little counters. Designers put lists such as this to make it easy for new players to get a hold of a competitive list easily. All you need is a Core and 4 Tie Expansions, which is the equivalent of Quad TLT and Quad Wookies. Boba can hold his own, his main defense is arc dodging but he puts up a fight with his ability when he's stuck. Fenn is fairly good too since arc dodging at higher initiative.

There's some stuff to list build solutions, but for actual in game clog up the middle of the board. The Tie player is going to make an L with his obstacles, DO NOT let him. Flank. A good Tie Swarm player will just go down and up the edge of the board until you commit, but 95% of players will get impatient and come in too soon.

Outer Rim Smuggler (78)
Maul (13)
Engine Upgrade (*)

Outer Rim Smuggler (78)
Ezra Bridger (18)
Rigged Cargo Chute (4)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Dont mind me, I'm just flying in circles here...

20 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Gotcha. Awful name.

Should be called Wave 1 Only or something like that.

We should be getting used to the fact that it's likely the default format for future organised play. That's pretty clear to me from how they've named these formats.

5 hours ago, william1134 said:

Whats the problem? Tie swarms are pretty hard to use effectively... They tend to bump into themselves and can die pretty quickly.

A good tie swarm player is something to be admired, not feared to the point of overpowering other ships.

Edit: im just really glad to see basic ties back on the table. So thematic!

So this isn't true at all. All you have to do to fly a swarm is understand basic geometry to fly a swarm and not bump. The tie swarm player is living the life right now, either watch your opponent lose trying to joust you, or you just wait and force them to engage you if they dont want a final salvo.

7 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

So this isn't true at all. All you have to do to fly a swarm is understand basic geometry to fly a swarm and not bump. The tie swarm player is living the life right now, either watch your opponent lose trying to joust you, or you just wait and force them to engage you if they dont want a final salvo.

Assuming final salvos are still the tie-breaker.

1 minute ago, svelok said:

Assuming final salvos are still the tie-breaker.

Time for the return of intentional draws.

17 minutes ago, SOTL said:

We should be getting used to the fact that it's likely the default format for future organised play. That's pretty clear to me from how they've named these formats.

They said that both routes will be used to get to Worlds and Corusant. Extended and non-conversion kit events.

Thanks @YourHucklebrry , @PhantomFO and @Tbetts94 - all good suggestions.

I think all the suggestions in this thread provide good pointers for how both Rebel and Scum may be able to play vs. Elite Tie Swarms under the so called "Second Edition" rules.

Thanks again everyone for your contributions!

Further ideas and comments are also very welcome!

8 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

They said that both routes will be used to get to Worlds and Corusant. Extended and non-conversion kit events.

Default does not mean 'only', but it does probably mean 'most common'.

2 hours ago, vladamex said:

Thanks @gennataos , @TechnoGolem and @ficklegreendice for the suggestions! All of the flying tips make sense!

A Scum squad of Boba(80), Fenn (68) and a Zealous Recruit (44) looks pretty good vs Tie Swarm on paper, and has 8 points left for customizations. For example, to upgrade ZR to Skull Squadron Pilot (+6 points for PS4) or to get Marauder/Han Solo gunner for Boba (+7 points). I'm gonna give this squad a run for sure

@gennataos Deadman's Switch is a really cool idea, I may try it on Boba

For Rebels , one option could be something like Luke(62), Wedge(52) and two Blue Squad Escorts (2x 41) which leaves just 4 points for customization. Wedge could become Biggs to provide better cover for Luke (exchange of offense for durability) but that could leave the squad much weaker in matchups vs ace lists.

How would you guys build a 4X (or a similar) rebel list that has a fighting chance vs. an Elite Tie Swarm?

FYI - The Cavern Angel Zealots can take Illicits. Partisan U-Wings (and other named U-Wings from Saw's) can take Illicits as well.

Ive had decent success splitting up my squad and using obstacles to either mitigate damage or force the formations apart. If I end up in a situation where 4+ low initiative enemy ships in formation are getting unobstructed attacks on my real valuable assets well... Either I did something wrong or my friend did something right.

Its tough for sure, especially coming from 1.0.

Proton Torpedo's and Biggs. Swarm dead.

The Rebel answer comes in the form of Roark and Swarm Tactics Tala Squadron Pilots with Cluster & Conc Missiles.

Out PS them (Initiative) by pumping everyone to I7 and alpha striking them with a mix of those missiles.

At least that's what I would try.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

FYI - The Cavern Angel Zealots can take Illicits. Partisan U-Wings (and other named U-Wings from Saw's) can take Illicits as well.

Wave 1 Illicits: Rigged Cargo Chute, Inertial Dampeners, and Deadman's Switch....

1 hour ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Proton Torpedo's and Biggs. Swarm dead.

Meet Iden Versio, eater of proton damage. New TIE swarm is incredible in the opening engagement.

34 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

The Rebel answer comes in the form of Roark and Swarm Tactics Tala Squadron Pilots with Cluster & Conc Missiles.

Out PS them (Initiative) by pumping everyone to I7 and alpha striking them with a mix of those missiles.

At least that's what I would try.

Thats not how those cards work together. Swarm tactics only buffs a ship up to the printed Initiative on the card, not Roark's ps 7 boost.

So what you're saying is I can't Roark a ship to 7, he Swarm Tactics his buddy to 7 also and down the line?

There was an A-wing list that could do similar tricks in first edition.

We need a Judge.

"JUDGE!"

1 minute ago, Force Majeure said:

So what you're saying is I can't Roark a ship to 7, he Swarm Tactics his buddy to 7 also and down the line?

There was an A-wing list that could do similar tricks in first edition.

->

7 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

Thats not how those cards work together. Swarm tactics only buffs a ship up to the printed Initiative on the card, not Roark's ps 7 boost.

4 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

So what you're saying is I can't Roark a ship to 7, he Swarm Tactics his buddy to 7 also and down the line?

There was an A-wing list that could do similar tricks in first edition.

Not sure on the card interactions, but I believe you about the First Edition list. This won't work though, because "Second Edition" format rules only allow 2.0 Wave 1 Expansions and the Core. HWK's and Z's are not included as possibilities for list building. Basically Y's, X's, and U's equipped only with upgrades that come from those Expansions or the Core.