@ficklegreendice
warned us about it. The bombers, the Jonus, the barrage rockets, the damage...
It's Deadeye Scouts all over again, only if anything they're worse second time around*. I don't really understand how we're here again.
* More damage output, more health, more ships, more ammo, harder to flank or range control, oh and they've all got Proton Bombs and Extra Munitions and they can drop the bombs at angles.
Edited by SOTLWell once they get the app going they can nurf it for you
All Hail the mighty Galactic EMPIRE!!!!!!
At this point I feel like all TIE Bombers need a 5-6 point cost increase, or better yet they need the 2nd Missile slot removing.
Both these things are changes easily implementable in the new system. But they need the will to make those changes.
Edited by SOTL
I suspect that only the wave locked stuff has been properly balanced. Played some super fun waved locked games last night that felt really good, haven't had that much fun with x-wing for a long time. Give the later stuff time and see if the points change.
9 minutes ago, Qark said:I suspect that only the wave locked stuff has been properly balanced. Played some super fun waved locked games last night that felt really good, haven't had that much fun with x-wing for a long time. Give the later stuff time and see if the points change.
I think that's pretty plausible, and if nobody was really testing conversion kit stuff at all it would explain how this happened.
TBH looking at the fact the app labels the use of Conversion Kit product as 'Extended' format I think it's likely we'll only rarely be able to use TIE Bombers anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter?
Edited by SOTLYeah, Tie Bombers are way ahead of any other ship in the game right now - for example cheapest generic pilot with Barrage Rockets and Proton Bombs is still 2 points cheaper than generic X-wing with no upgrades at all.
Just stop aimlessly flying towards the bombers head-on.
They are I2. They cannot reposition or be blocked if they want their shots to matter. They desperately cannot be at range 1. They tie themselves to a ship at range 1.
Going straight for 1-2 turns and then hard turning to engage is effectively the same as just flying straight at them, but now you made it harder to rule-of-11 them to a range 1 or a blocked engagement.
Any arc locked ship that can boost (except the T-65 as they want their foils to be open) can force that range 1 engage and come out ahead on the joust. Fearless Fang Fighters in particular dismantle this list.
If you can't force a range 1 engage via being able to boost (and just having a 5 straight still makes this doable, albiet harder) you can flank pretty reasonably.
22 minutes ago, SOTL said:@ficklegreendice warned us about it. The bombers, the Jonus, the barrage rockets, the damage...
It's Deadeye Scouts all over again, only if anything they're worse second time around*. I don't really understand how we're here again.
* More damage output, more health, more ships, more ammo, harder to flank or range control, oh and they've all got Proton Bombs and Extra Munitions and they can drop the bombs at angles.
Did you run your Scum swarm against it?
Just now, Kaptin Krunch said:Just stop aimlessly flying towards the bombers head-on.
They are I2. They cannot reposition or be blocked if they want their shots to matter. They desperately cannot be at range 1. They tie themselves to a ship at range 1.
Going straight for 1-2 turns and then hard turning to engage is effectively the same as just flying straight at them, but now you made it harder to rule-of-11 them to a range 1 or a blocked engagement.
Any arc locked ship that can boost (except the T-65 as they want their foils to be open) can force that range 1 engage and come out ahead on the joust. Fearless Fang Fighters in particular dismantle this list.
If you can't force a range 1 engage via being able to boost (and just having a 5 straight still makes this doable, albiet harder) you can flank pretty reasonably.
Yeah, that doesn't work very well. That was what I had in mind would be how you beat them,until I had to play against them and saw them in action. Unless their pilot is asleep at the wheel and makes a ton of mistakes this doesn't work at all.
Just now, Hiemfire said:Did you run your Scum swarm against it?
They'll decimate the scum swarm. They've more firepower, more hull and proton bombs so you can't k-turn past them on the next turn. The scum swarm did pretty well today but the bombers should eat it for lunch. I genuinely am shellshocked.
I knew the Tie Bombers were probably very good but I assumed there would be an 'all you need to do is...' to beating them. Even thinking that they were probably very good was vastly underestimating them. Having spent the day in their company I'm not sure there really is an 'all you need to do is...' that isn't bringing ALL the Traj Sim and just doing to them what they wanted to do to you.
Like.. 'all you need to do is dive into R1'... and take 15 red dice with single mods instead of 15 red dice with double mods then have to deal with 4 Proton Bombs scattered around next turn.
6 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:Just stop aimlessly flying towards the bombers head-on.
They are I2. They cannot reposition or be blocked if they want their shots to matter. They desperately cannot be at range 1. They tie themselves to a ship at range 1.
Going straight for 1-2 turns and then hard turning to engage is effectively the same as just flying straight at them, but now you made it harder to rule-of-11 them to a range 1 or a blocked engagement.
Any arc locked ship that can boost (except the T-65 as they want their foils to be open) can force that range 1 engage and come out ahead on the joust. Fearless Fang Fighters in particular dismantle this list.
If you can't force a range 1 engage via being able to boost (and just having a 5 straight still makes this doable, albiet harder) you can flank pretty reasonably.
I don't think that surviving a turn of shooting from 5 focused, range 1 Bombers is as easy as you think it is. And turn after you also have to dodge 4 proton bombs that they drop.
Try the four scum falcon swarm against it?
Just now, PanchoX1 said:Try the four scum falcon swarm against it?
That's not a serious list.
Called it
But don't sleep on juke phantoms either
24 minutes ago, SOTL said:TBH looking at the fact the app labels the use of Conversion Kit product as 'Extended' format I think it's likely we'll only rarely be able to use TIE Bombers anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter?
This is exactly what I took away from it as well. "Extended" format is something to play at side tables or themed events. "X-Wing 2.0" lists only include items found in the Core Set or 2.0 expansions. It also does a lot to explain the balancing decisions for the "Extended" format. Not brave enough to call it yet, but I am pretty sure at this point that the top competitive formats will only allow Core Set and 2.0 expansions, nothing that appears only in the Conversion Kits.
Tie Bombers with Barrage Rocket are pretty obviously a little too good for their points. Add in Jonus and it's over the top. This was my personal favorite to exploit the imbalance, though there are many other valid variants I am sure.
"Deathrain" (42)
Trajectory Simulator (3)
Barrage Rockets (6)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)
Ablative Plating (4)
Cutlass Squadron Pilot (36)
Trajectory Simulator (3)
Barrage Rockets (6)
Proton Bombs (5)
Ablative Plating (4)
Captain Jonus (36)
Barrage Rockets (6)
Shield Upgrade (*)
Scimitar Squadron Pilot (28)
Barrage Rockets (6)
Total: 199
39 minutes ago, SOTL said:
Both these things are changes easily implementable in the new system.
Yeeeeahhhh about that...
16 minutes ago, SOTL said:They'll decimate the scum swarm. They've more firepower, more hull and proton bombs so you can't k-turn past them on the next turn. The scum swarm did pretty well today but the bombers should eat it for lunch. I genuinely am shellshocked.
I knew the Tie Bombers were probably very good but I assumed there would be an 'all you need to do is...' to beating them. Even thinking that they were probably very good was vastly underestimating them. Having spent the day in their company I'm not sure there really is an 'all you need to do is...' that isn't bringing ALL the Traj Sim and just doing to them what they wanted to do to you.
Like.. 'all you need to do is dive into R1'... and take 15 red dice with single mods instead of 15 red dice with double mods then have to deal with 4 Proton Bombs scattered around next turn.
So the counters are limited to arc dodge and get lucky or Traj Punishers and get lucky. Ouch.
17 minutes ago, SOTL said:They'll decimate the scum swarm. They've more firepower, more hull and proton bombs so you can't k-turn past them on the next turn. The scum swarm did pretty well today but the bombers should eat it for lunch. I genuinely am shellshocked.
I knew the Tie Bombers were probably very good but I assumed there would be an 'all you need to do is...' to beating them. Even thinking that they were probably very good was vastly underestimating them. Having spent the day in their company I'm not sure there really is an 'all you need to do is...' that isn't bringing ALL the Traj Sim and just doing to them what they wanted to do to you.
Like.. 'all you need to do is dive into R1'... and take 15 red dice with single mods instead of 15 red dice with double mods then have to deal with 4 Proton Bombs scattered around next turn.
I ran a scum swarm against a Punisher and 4 Barrage Rocket Bombers last night. I can confirm that the bombers wiped me out with ease. Being at range 1 didn't help me.
1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:So the counters are limited to arc dodge and get lucky or Traj Punishers and get lucky. Ouch.
I don't think arc-dodging is a reliable solution as they can cover so much table with bombs.
5 minutes ago, SOTL said:I don't think arc-dodging is a reliable solution as they can cover so much table with bombs.
Would you mind describing a formation of these bombers? I'm having trouble understanding how all approaches can be covered.
3 minutes ago, SOTL said:I don't think arc-dodging is a reliable solution as they can cover so much table with bombs.
That is where the "get lucky", blegh, factors in. I should have said "get very lucky". R1 from the token is a large area to avoid on top of the barrage rocket arc of the bombers themselves. Do able I think but most likely not incredibly easy.
4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Would you mind describing a formation of these bombers? I'm having trouble understanding how all approaches can be covered.
Well, if you get into range 1 and somehow survive, then Bombers on the sides of the formation will drop the bombs with 1 bank templates, leaving very few safe landing spots.
24 minutes ago, Revanxv said:I don't think that surviving a turn of shooting from 5 focused, range 1 Bombers is as easy as you think it is. And turn after you also have to dodge 4 proton bombs that they drop.
No it's super doable, especially if your name starts with "F" and ends with "Ang Fighter"
Almost like 5 straight (boost if needed) focus, followed by bailing from the bombs (which if they do drop baits half of them out) is mathematically an answer.
280mm of potential forward movement on your side with 80mm of flex room just tells them "no". This is also assuming you don't have Fenn (give even less of a ****) Teroch (Amounts of ***** decreasing...) or even Fearless Skulls- All of which can potentially PS kill a bomber or even Jonus.
Boba 2skull. Wave 1 legal, and it dismantles this list.
This wasn't even hard to figure out. Tie swarm can do similar levels of destruction by sending in an academy to get a block.
It's not the best at jousting. It's just really good at killing bad stuff fast.
Just now, Kaptin Krunch said:No it's super doable, especially if your name starts with "F" and ends with "Ang Fighter"
So not doable if the name of your faction starts with "R" and ends with "ebels".