Is 2.0 aimed at casuals, competitive players or both? Or is it too early to say?

I bought enough stuff for 1.0 mainly to play casually with friends, but found that when it was taken to gaming nights it was already obsolete which soured things for me.

I’ve not played 2.0 yet, but if there is a chance it might add life to the older waves in 1.0 and the OT starfighters then I might consider getting back in.

I’m buying a core set to test the water - anyone got any opinions on this?

Both probably. 2.0 is for sure more balanced, and will probably get even better as time progresses.

2.0 has way more casual-oriented events that are going to be a blast.

That being said, there's still stuff in 2.0 that is very much not fun to fly against with a casual fleet.

One thing that's nice is that the new squadbuilder has a custom format mode now, so you and your locals can just collectively agree on a banlist, shared the week before game night via Facebook or the forums or whatever.

Edit: OT ships are some of the best ships in 2.0 now. I've seen people at different times now saying that Firesprays, X-Wings, TIE Swarms, TIE Bombers, and Vader are ruining the game!

I would say it's aimed at both too. That said, whether it is worthwhile for a casual player very much depends on the player. I'm strictly casual but there are so many small changes that appeal to me it feels totally worthwhile and like it will breathe new life into older waves as well as making the game better overall. Some selling points for me, off the top of my head; More maneuvers for older ships, more actions on some ships, linked actions, ship abilities, dials where you can see all the options at once, rotating turret arcs replacing 360 turrets, force mechanics, calculating droids, and the general re-balancing.

The rebalancing should be beneficial for both groups of players. It will hopefully keep ships more in balance, allowing a more causal player to take what they want and do decent at a tournament.

In general, the app (if they can get it working properly) should be good for creating themed events which can appeal to both groups.

While I agree it should be better for both, I really think that 2.0 mostly attempts to reign in things that were found to be out of balance competitively (even though there will still be imbalances) and address rules they couldn't otherwise.

2.0 is firmly aimed at the competetive side.

They fixed all the stuff people in the Tourney scene didnt like, and basically ignored most of the casual players concerns. The game is way more complicated now, with many upgrades requiring more skill to use (due to bullseye arcs, etc.).

That said some broken stuff was fixed, but its no longer a game i can reccomend to friends who dont already own a collection

Suckers

2.0 is definately aimed at the competitive crowd. Eliminating a lot of the unbalanced parts of the game (360 degree Turrets, Crazy Action Economy, Unlimited Regeneration with minimal drawbacks) make for a much more satisfying competitive experience. Support for variant tournament formats is also quite welcome. I'd say it's also good for casual players who are part of a large community like a large FLGS. Eliminating the really broken stuff means you're going to see a lot less curb-stomping occur. Finally, brand new players are less likely to run into awkward situations that arose out of bad early designs, although I think they should have included a copy of the first release of the rules reference to better help new players transition to the full game, just with a big disclaimer telling people to check online for updates.

It does leave a couple of groups behind. The uncertain timeline for the release of Epic makes it unpalatable for a small but vocal group here. It's also a bit of a hard sell for people with relatively small collections. But it's the narrative players (who tend to be conflated with casual players*) who are really left out. While a better balanced game does make creating scenarios a little easier, cutting out the official scenarios means they don't really get anything from new products unless they're huge fans of a particular ship. Releasing a campaign or a scenario book with new cardboard components for stuff like satellites, cargo containers, unarmed freighters, Exogorths**, and other stuff would go a long way to bringing narrative players back into the fold.

*This is somewhat erroneous in my opinion. A casual player is someone who has a handful of 1st party ships. Some of the narrative players on these boards have 12+ X-wings, even more Tie Fighters, multiple epic ships, and even tons of third party ships.

**The Giant Space Worms from the Asteroid field in ESB.

I would have said competive and my small group was going to just stick with 1st edition. Especially since it's just reboots of OT Ships which most players already had the ones they wanted, or new ST ships which most of us didn't really care to play. But then they came out with the announcement that changed everything. Clone Wars is coming.

Now if I want to play an awesome Clone Wars dogfighting game, I need to keep going haha. Still wish it was coming sooner as I mostly just want to play with the ships I have and only buy new Clone Wars content including any starter that they have for it. But FFG is a business after all and they are very good at making money.

TLDR: If you want to play Clone Wars or Sequel trilogy space battles, 2.0 is the only way. If you guys are cool with 1st edition ships out (which is basically all OT ships) and no one flies broken combos then carry on with the current edition.

OK I've never played in a tournament or even at my FLGS (for shame, I know; I'll fix this as soon as I can) so you can definitely color me a casual. But there are three major reasons I'm extremely glad to switch to 2nd edition.

#1: Even for a casual, there was just a ton of stuff in the game that was no fun to play against. 360 turrets? Autoblaster/Accuracy Corrector Ghost? 4xTLT? Trajectory Simulator Bomblets? Just so many things that the few friends that I play with found and decided to use, and no one can beat. It kind of takes the fun out of even casual games. Killing all those things makes me very happy.

#2: Especially for a casual, I want plenty of variety in my options. I can't fly Keyan Farlander without VI or PTL because his PS or Action economy just won't do anything without it. Even Fenn Rau, who was made for Fearlessness, always takes Expertise or PTL so he can boost and still get focused attacks. Basically there were only a few Elites left: Crack Shot, VI, Intensity, PTL, and Expertise. Every other upgrade means you're not really trying to win, which made me really sad. The same goes for building an X-Wing. Your Mod slots are both filled with S-Foils and Integrated Astromech, Your top slot is full of Renegade Refit, and your astro will probably have R2 or FAA unless you're Tarn or Hobbie, and they only have one choice each too. Not many good choices there. And so on for the rest of the game.

#3: I can't get any of my other friends into it. And I tried for a long time. Of course you want to start them with an X-Wing, but guess what? Luke Skywalker isn't a good pilot. Also he needs the Renegade Refit to get any use out of his X-Wing (so what's he doing flying for Saw?) and oh that means he can't carry Proton Torpedoes (which are trash anyway) and FAA is probably better than R2-D2, but you'll probably use R2-D2 just for fun. Oh and that S-Foils card? Yeah it's really tricky to explain exactly how it works, just leave it on the open side. It just means you can barrel roll and tallon roll if you want (even though the Talon roll isn't on your dial...) and so on and so on. It's hard to recommend what they should buy because you have to get 4 different packs just to fly Wedge (Core, X-Wing, Saw, T-70 for Integrated) and even that isn't all that great. 2nd edition fixes all of that by taking all the fixes and applying them directly to the base cards. Munitions like Proton Torpedoes are excellent. All the rules are very, very streamlined compared to 1st edition. Force makes Luke and Vader absolutely AMAZING. Isn't this what casual players want in a game?

All in all I'm so excited to play 2nd edition, even though I was never exposed to the tournament scene. So my answer is a very definitive and resounding BOTH. The game experience is improved for anyone who wants to play the game at all.

I think 1.0 is perhaps better for the very casual player who only owns a handful of expansions and plays with friends maybe a couple times a year or whatever, if only because the 2.0 rulebook and mechanics are a bit more involved and may reference things that will never come up in any game due to the limited selection of ships and upgrades they own.

In general though, even casual players who just play semi-regularly with friends (this is me) can see benefits from the basic changes in 2nd edition.

Although, I wonder if perhaps 1st edition epic play may have some fringe benefits from how simple and powerful offense can be. Playing a large game of 2nd edition may not see ships destroyed quickly enough to make for good game flow, at least with what we have available now. Then again, that could open up more room for huge ships to be useful depending on how they operate in 2.0.

@ClassicalMoser hits a lot of the casual friendly points I like about 2.0. There is also the whole Threat Levels version of play seems geared towards the type of player my more casual friends who would play this are. They enjoy the strategy and complex gameplay, but don't desire to go to tournaments and compete. So they can build a simple static fleet with some complexity without needing to pine over what to spend 200 points on, and can just buy a new ship and swap it in for something of the appropriate threat level. It's pretty nice, in my opinion.

Both. Especially if you are starting now.

4 hours ago, Squark said:

It does leave a couple of groups behind. The uncertain future of Epic makes it unpalatable for a small but vocal group here.

Yeah, they worry too much. Epic will be coming, and I am super excited for it!

4 hours ago, Squark said:

But it's the narrative players (who tend to be conflated with casual players*) who are really left out. While a better balanced game does make creating scenarios a little easier, cutting out the official scenarios means they don't really get anything from new products unless they're huge fans of a particular ship. Releasing a campaign or a scenario book with new cardboard components for stuff like satellites, cargo containers, unarmed freighters, Exogorths**, and other stuff would go a long way to bringing narrative players back into the fold.

Good idea. I am excited to try some of the First Edition scenarios in second edition, and see how they function. For example, the scenario that comes with the Ghost Expansion Pack is a lot of fun, and I think it would translate well to Second Edition.

2 hours ago, PanchoX1 said:

hard to disagree as I sit here at work, watching the clock, next to a massive bag of 2nd ed that weights like 20 pounds that I picked up at lunch time....

....and realized you won't be using the app to play with tonight

Given , you can actually use any ship with relatively good odds of success

Including, finally,the flag ship of the flipping game

It's pretty objectively for everyone

XWM (1.0 and 2.0) is aimed at the competitive crowd. There is a small nod to casuals with missions and epic, but the prevailing theory is that a perfect competitive game results in an better casual environment.

I call it Trickle Down Xwing , and it is about as much crap as the economic theory.

Definitely both. Sitting down (or standing up) for a game and seeing some OP monster accross from you that you know is going to steamroll you is boring for a casual game as well as awful for a competitive game, so the new balance improves things for everyone. Mind you, I’ve only had two (casual) games with it, so take my opinion with a very large grain of salt!

Five live games just today, not counting the countless hours wasted playing 2nd Ed online

The only barrier to a fun and tense experience is bull rng

So, infinitely better than 1st Ed

Sure, swarms of any kind are scary...but you can outmanuever swarms. They aren't undodgable bull turrets that I still can't believe anyone thought was a good idea

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Five live games just today, not counting the countless hours wasted playing 2nd Ed online

The only barrier to a fun and tense experience is bull rng

So, infinitely better than 1st Ed

Sure, swarms of any kind are scary...but you can outmanuever swarms. They aren't undodgable bull turrets that I still can't believe anyone thought was a good idea

My Palob and Boba are looking forward to swarms. ?

9 hours ago, DarthHenryAllen said:

Some selling points for me, off the top of my head; More maneuvers for older ships, more actions on some ships, linked actions, ship abilities, dials where you can see all the options at once, rotating turret arcs replacing 360 turrets, force mechanics, calculating droids, and the general re-balancing.

As a strictly casual player, I couldn't have said it better myself.

8 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

The game is way more complicated now, with many upgrades requiring more skill to use (due to bullseye arcs, etc.).

You know, not everyone who's a casual hates complexity in games...

Competitive players may have been the loudest voice FFG listened to (or not. I don't know), but there's still plenty for casuals to like, too. Whether a player prefers 1.0 or 2.0 is simply a matter of personal taste, and has little to do with whether the person prefers casual or competitive (though competitive players may be forced to upgrade due to lack of 1.0 tournament support, which wouldn't be a problem for casuals who don't wish to switch).

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Given , you can actually use any ship with relatively good odds of success

Including, finally,the flag ship of the flipping game

It's pretty objectively for everyone

This is huge for me. In First Edition, there were ships that simply wouldn't work at all unless your opponent was intentionally playing a weak list. In Second Edition, some ships are still weaker than others, but all of them at least seem playable to the point of being able to have a little fun before they're destroyed.

Also, it appears to me that actions and tokens are a bit less efficient in 2.0. My hope is that there's a little less, "Every single turn I just perform the exact same actions and get the exact same token stack," and a bit more, "I have several good (but mutually exclusive) options, so I actually need to make a real choice of what I want to do this turn."

2.0 Makes life easier for new players because the "Second Edition" format only includes ships that have been re-released, making it somewhat easier on your wallet

10 hours ago, mfairhu1 said:

Is 2.0 aimed at casuals, competitive players or both? Or is it too early to say?

I bought enough stuff for 1.0 mainly to play casually with friends, but found that when it was taken to gaming nights it was already obsolete which soured things for me.

I’ve not played 2.0 yet, but if there is a chance it might add life to the older waves in 1.0 and the OT starfighters then I might consider getting back in.

I’m buying a core set to test the water - anyone got any opinions on this?

It's aimed at both. Part of the problem with 1st Ed was that it happened in waves...which eventually got unbalanced. 2nd Ed is where they take 15 waves of ships at one time.....and balance them. Also, they can tweak things in the future if they design something bad as the app has a lot of the stats. So.....they took 6 years of X-wing and made it all balanced. It's really good at this point.

I also want to point out that a balanced tournament game (really balanced) means a balanced casual game. If the tournament scene isn't broken with OP stuff, that means the casual stuff is awesome, too.

9 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

2.0 is firmly aimed at the competetive side.

They fixed all the stuff people in the Tourney scene didnt like, and basically ignored most of the casual players concerns. The game is way more complicated now, with many upgrades requiring more skill to use (due to bullseye arcs, etc.).

That said some broken stuff was fixed, but its no longer a game i can reccomend to friends who dont already own a collection

Ummm......I want to use a quote from Princess Leia about delusions, but you might take it the wrong way (and I mean it light hearted).

I am a casual player and I think FFG did a lot to address my concerns with the game. I don't know where you get this idea that they ignored most of the casual player concerns. I feel like they pretty much nailed them on the head for me. I've been playing since Wave 1 and remember when the game was good.

You say the game is more complicated, but I think it's actually a lot simpler. The general tweaks to the rules make things a lot easier to understand. There are good and bad tokens that go away at the end of the turn. They are easily marked now. There are good and bad tokens that stay at the end of the turn. They are easily marked. The language of the rules is made simpler and the various icons for things makes the game overall easier to understand. There are fewer upgrade options now and that's a lot easier to wrap your head around. Much simpler game at the moment. There are a FEW upgrades that deal with bulls-eye mark, but it's not like it's rocket science. I honestly think the rules are much easier to understand now.

I don't know why you would not recommend it to someone who doesn't already own a collection. The game is super balanced right now and it's a great time to get into the game.

8 hours ago, Squark said:

2.0 is definately aimed at the competitive crowd...

It does leave a couple of groups behind. The uncertain future of Epic makes it unpalatable for a small but vocal group here...

What's uncertain about epic? It seems lately people are freaking out about it as if it's going to go away. FFG stated they were going to come out with 2nd Ed (starting with 3 factions) and get to Epic later when they can give it real attention. There are still ships out for 2 factions that haven't been released yet. We JUST released 2nd Ed for the first 3 factions. They will do Epic most likely next year.

Where are you getting this "uncertain future" thing for epic?

10 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I've seen people at different times now saying that Firesprays, X-Wings, TIE Swarms, TIE Bombers, and Vader are ruining the game!

As it should be!

Cheers for any answers to this thread.

I’ve ordered a core set of 2.0 to play test, but definitely feel conflicted about going all in and converting what is a pretty modest 1.0 fleet (some of each faction).

Out of interest, if you were buying or selling second hand 1.0 models/stuff would you pay more to have them converted up front or would you rather have all the old stuff?

I probably need to drop into a local gaming night to see what the score is.