10 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Yes. About 4 hours after released, they were re-released with numerous errors spotted by the forums.

Now that everything is fully adjustable, it seems that nothing will come out fully finished. And you can never be sure anything is correct.

?

thanks, I'll re download the PDFs to get ready for the weekend.

Personally, I'd recommend printing them out, but then again I prefer flipping through physical pages to scrolling on a computer, generally.

11 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

did those things not get fixed? I thought they had but didn't really pay that much attention as I was waiting for yesterday to really dive in. Well, Sunday, as our last 1st ed tourney is tomorrow.

Probably.

But one major reason I am now out is that I am not going to be spending my time chasing down "is this the latest version with all the obvious errors fixed?"

Yesterday, I looked at the app, looked at all the threads here, and didn't waste another minute of my day doing FFG's work for them.

IMHO it's worse than fixing the meta.

It's used to be a question of "is this broken?"

Now it's a question of "is this finished/correct?"

At least in the former case you knew you were playing the game "as intended." Now, who knows. . .

being printed now.

I too prefer flipping through printed pages ?

6 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

But one major reason I am now out is that I am not going to be spending my time chasing down "is this the latest version with all the obvious errors fixed?"

Yeah, one thing I'd like to see is the revision numbers prominently visible on the PDFs and on the site links, so that you can easily tell if you're up-to-date.

39 minutes ago, robert t said:

agreed the "I wasted $150" is hard to understand.

However, I think you are missing the point people are making regarding the app.

In your analogy, the app isn't the utensils or plates.

It is part of the "excellent meal".

So being upset because you ordered a T-bone steak and it came with frozen vegetables is more in line with what people are saying.

The salt in the wound is that 3rd party people have created better apps in less time than what FFGs put out yesterday.

I'm happy to play just for fun, and for that, I never needed to buy conversion kits. I can easily print new dials to place over 1.0 dials and I'd be just fine. The app is supposed to be for competitive play, especially for special events, so its poor execution means I really don't want to bother at this point, hence "wasting $150". I don't even understand having to justify my statements - I still love the game, but the app is horrible. I miss using Startactics to build lists. It was clean and simple and worked perfectly. The app is most certainly a utensil and not understanding that basic analogy eludes me as well. The reason I made it was to denote the fact that I'm good with everything else, just not how I was supposed to handle the game. I guess being poetic is ill-advised.

Bottom line: this FFG app is awful. I will continue to play, but probably not competitively if the app is required to it. If there is an event I want to participate in I'll do what I need to do - I know there are options available - I just never thought I'd have to use "options" instead of the thing that should have been great from the start.

26 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Now it's a question of "is this finished/correct?"

is it though? I mean, if you're pulling the pdf from the website, you know you have the latest. Personally, I have soooo much cardboard to punch, and cards to sleeve and sort, I'm sure by the time I'm done with that, the app will be fixed too. it's already a ton better that it was a few hours ago. yeah, the launch was pooched and a total failure. but They'll straighten it out. I'm not bothered at all.

But I totally get that you are, and I respect your point of view even if I don't really agree with it on the same level that you are at. I sure hope by the time they upgrade the epic rules, they have things on track and you can jump in, if you want to , and keep enjoying it.

It's salvagable (it has to be). I like the features and funtionality of other squad builders (YASB 2.0) better, but the official one works. It really does need to be improved upon (WHERE IS THE DIAL INFORMATION), but they can make it work.

There have been worse launches/openings

55 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Yeah, one thing I'd like to see is the revision numbers prominently visible on the PDFs and on the site links, so that you can easily tell if you're up-to-date.

31 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

is it though? I mean, if you're pulling the pdf from the website, you know you have the latest.

Do you??

I mean, unless you actually go back out to the website and check again, can you ever be sure you are 100% current??

Certainly not now, at the current rates of revision.

And since I can go months without playing, I would basically have to check online every single time I plan to play to see if I have the latest. Functionally, that is completely stupid. And not worth it, IMHO.

Thus, I may as well play an out-of-date 1.0 in which I know the extant problems, as opposed to an OOD 2.0 with errors and missing revisions that I have no willingness to keep track of.

Quote

But I totally get that you are, and I respect your point of view even if I don't really agree with it on the same level that you are at. I sure hope by the time they upgrade the epic rules, they have things on track and you can jump in, if you want to , and keep enjoying it.

Yeah, maybe.

But that's so far down the line that I am still effectively quitting* in this moment.

I think 2.0 has a lot of nice features. But I'm just not going to tolerate this level of developmental hijinx with my gaming dollars.

*And by quitting, it's not that I'm going to stop playing. I'm just not going to play keep-up or give this game my hobby dollars. I'll go get a nice meal. Without a spork.

21 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

?

If FFG loses customers over this then those players need to get some perspective. I work on and use projects with budgets several orders of magnitude larger than FFG and none of us are ever surprised by a bid process leading to a product like this at launch. If you want a great product on day 1 you have to pay for it in beta testing and QA. All of that costs real money. FFG is not that big.

This argument would be a lot of stronger were it not the case that there already exist several much-closer-to-flawless squad-builders put out there by community members who have been doing it on their own time, for free, without any inside or early knowledge from FFG that would have been available earlier to their squad-builder developer.

This is a pretty embarrassing failure for FFG, and there's really no way to spin it differently. For the vast majority of people it won't be a deal-breaker or anything, but it is the kind of thing that chips away at a company's reputation in the eyes of their customers.

17 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Do you??

I mean, unless you actually go back out to the website and check again, can you ever be sure you are 100% current??

Certainly not now, at the current rates of revision.

And since I can go months without playing, I would basically have to check online every single time I plan to play to see if I have the latest. Functionally, that is completely stupid. And not worth it, IMHO.

Thus, I may as well play an out-of-date 1.0 in which I know the extant problems, as opposed to an OOD 2.0 with errors and missing revisions that I have no willingness to keep track of.

Yeah, maybe.

But that's so far down the line that I am still effectively quitting* in this moment.

I think 2.0 has a lot of nice features. But I'm just not going to tolerate this level of developmental hijinx with my gaming dollars.

*And by quitting, it's not that I'm going to stop playing. I'm just not going to play keep-up or give this game my hobby dollars. I'll go get a nice meal. Without a spork.

So take your negative attitude and leave then.

Nobody's gonna miss you.

You can join that vontoothski or whatever his name is in the luddite corner.

20 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Do you??

I mean, unless you actually go back out to the website and check again, can you ever be sure you are 100% current??

Well, it doesn't help that FFG has had a real habit of "stealth-updating" the FAQ/Errata/Regulation documents over the years. Especially when there'd be goofs and the community would point them out almost instantly, and within a couple days there'd be a series of changes made in a stealth update that FFG would never publicly announce (I guess they figured it was better to not flag their mistakes?). Sometimes, original updates happened without any announcement from FFG (e.g. when the Epic Regulations were updated after like three years of being outdated, it was done without any mention or farfare -- I only learned about days later because of a forum post pointing out that someone had noticed an update).

Hopefully, with squad-builder content, they'll at least make it very obvious each and everytime there is an update, even if that update is happening three hours after a 'big update' because they've gone in to fix a few mistakes.

Some apps also have a hard time auto-updating, and there are plenty of issues with some Android Apps and the play store where it reports that there are no updates available or that everything is up to date when in fact it's not. These sort of issues will undoubtedly cause the occasional problem where someone has brought an illegal list they genuinely believed was up--to-date and permitted, because of an app-update issue. Also fun will be the fact that AppleStore apps sometimes get updated later than GooglePlay Apps, because Apple has a much more stringent internal check to apps that go through their store and this can often delay its release. So if FFG sends a big update out a day before it's supposed to be available and go live, anyone with an iPhone or iPad might miss the boat.

8 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

This argument would be a lot of stronger were it not the case that there already exist several much-closer-to-flawless squad-builders put out there by community members who have been doing it on their own time, for free, without any inside or early knowledge from FFG that would have been available earlier to their squad-builder developer.

This is a pretty embarrassing failure for FFG, and there's really no way to spin it differently. For the vast majority of people it won't be a deal-breaker or anything, but it is the kind of thing that chips away at a company's reputation in the eyes of their customers.

They also don't have to go through the LFL approval process.

22 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

It’s day 1. Settle down lol.

We’ve got different bars for quality when it comes to software.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

The game has simply changed a having bad meta for a few months to having nothing viable upon release.

This is shocking news to all the people playing 2.0 games and enjoying themselves.

21 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I would basically have to check online every single time I plan to play to see if I have the latest.

yes, you would. Not the most convenient method to be sure but far from the no way to know you expressed earlier. that's all I was getting at.

23 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I'm just not going to play keep-up or give this game my hobby dollars. I'll go get a nice meal. Without a spork.

Well, let us know what you gravitate toward. As a person who likes, liked x-wing, I'd be curious to know what you end up playing to fill the gaming time.

26 minutes ago, BDrafty said:

It's salvagable (it has to be). I like the features and funtionality of other squad builders (YASB 2.0) better, but the official one works. It really does need to be improved upon (WHERE IS THE DIAL INFORMATION), but they can make it work.

There have been worse launches/openings

Healthcare.gov comes to mind. I work with some of those guys. Everything looks easy from the outside.

13 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

This argument would be a lot of stronger were it not the case that there already exist several much-closer-to-flawless squad-builders put out there by community members who have been doing it on their own time, for free, without any inside or early knowledge from FFG that would have been available earlier to their squad-builder developer.

This is a pretty embarrassing failure for FFG, and there's really no way to spin it differently. For the vast majority of people it won't be a deal-breaker or anything, but it is the kind of thing that chips away at a company's reputation in the eyes of their customers.

None of those apps or sites attempts to do what ffg is doing, lol. And none of them were bug free at launch. Don’t canonize them, lol.

I’m kind of embarrassed at the behavior of the community. But a small, tabletop gaming company releasing an imperfect digital application? Lol. Get real.

2 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

They also don't have to go through the LFL approval process.

Whoopdeedoo, it's not like that's news to FFG. They've been dealing with the LFL approval process for over six years, they know what is involved at this point. It's not like LFL was handed a great fully functional app and then put a bunch of bugs into the software and gave it back... FFG needed to either set an earlier deadline to have a completed and tested and functional app to send to the LFL for approval, or they should have factored in the approval process to their development and set a later public release date.

11 minutes ago, TheRabidAardvark said:

So take your negative attitude and leave then.

*snort*

Yeah, if only I hadn't commented, this entire thread would be all rainbows and butterflies about the swell new app.

7 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

This is shocking news to all the people playing 2.0 games and enjoying themselves.

OK, viable was a bad word choice. More like questionable: is this correct on release, or will it fixed very soon due to omission/misprint/whatever.

5 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

Well, let us know what you gravitate toward. As a person who likes, liked x-wing, I'd be curious to know what you end up playing to fill the gaming time.

I like XWM.

I don't like the ongoing instability in the game created by mistake after mistake.

I'll be going back to Magic The Gathering. My wife is learning the game with me. I already have many cards, haven't played much in a decade, will have better luck getting a game in, and will have forwards and backwards compatibility with 20 years worth of releases.

16 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Some apps also have a hard time auto-updating, and there are plenty of issues with some Android Apps and the play store where it reports that there are no updates available or that everything is up to date when in fact it's not. These sort of issues will undoubtedly cause the occasional problem where someone has brought an illegal list they genuinely believed was up--to-date and permitted, because of an app-update issue. Also fun will be the fact that AppleStore apps sometimes get updated later than GooglePlay Apps, because Apple has a much more stringent internal check to apps that go through their store and this can often delay its release. So if FFG sends a big update out a day before it's supposed to be available and go live, anyone with an iPhone or iPad might miss the boat.

I'm guessing this is part of the reason that the app is online-only, and doesn't appear to cache data. As long as the server gets updated, everyone has the most recent changes. The only time the app needs to be updated is for changes to the GUI or the underlying framework.

5 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I'm guessing this is part of the reason that the app is online-only, and doesn't appear to cache data. As long as the server gets updated, everyone has the most recent changes. The only time the app needs to be updated is for changes to the GUI or the underlying framework.

That's not a good reason though, they could just as easily had a flag in they system that alerts you that your version is out of date once you use it a single time online after another update was released. It could also say "you haven't checked for an update in X days, your list may not be tournament approved" across whatever relevant screens they need to post it. It can be fully functional offline, if they wanted it, with just updating the local database as needed. I've seen other apps do similar things.

I thought they'd removed the Mod slot from Scurrgs, then when I checked it was just Havoc was bugged into the mod slot, then when I fixed and put it back in the title slot I didn't get a Mech or Sensor slot back.

14 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I'll be going back to Magic The Gathering. My wife is learning the game with me. I already have many cards, haven't played much in a decade, will have better luck getting a game in, and will have forwards and backwards compatibility with 20 years worth of releases.

I still don't really get quitting altogether, but I guess it's just a matter of personal preference, and where each of us draws the line. Still, glad to see you have other pastimes waiting for you, and hopefully someday X-Wing will earn your approval again.