12 minutes ago, Embir82 said:

Are there seriously fanboys that defend FFG in this situation?

People without FUNDS, working in their FREE TIME, for NO MONEY, made better fan-made apps and on-line tools, having about 4 MONTHS since X-Wing 2.0 has been announced.
Meanwhile FFG had resources, time and IP to do whatever they like - and they failed massively.

Luckily I prefer pdf version of available upgrades and card costs, and I actually plan to print them, given amateurish level of FFG when it comes to their app. But imagine how dissapointed were people that came to LGS to play X-Wing at the day of the premiere only to get to know that squadron builder is just a big joke, not even qualifying as a working application.

We played and talked yesterday a lot about X-Wing and while the app is disapointing, nobody really cared. People were angry though that there were too few damage decks, so even a lot of people that ordered the core set didn't get one.

5 hours ago, JJ48 said:

You could always use the PDFs (or printouts of same) and the cards.

Also, I'm not sure I think much of your analogy. If the meal is that great, does it really matter what utensils you're using? If the game is awesome, are you really going to let a sub-par app spoil it?

Yeah, it does matter. Why settle for mediocrity when excellence is an option?

I work with developers for a living. They can be notorious for getting things done right on a timeline. Yes, there are times when it works right and on time. Those days are rare. They eventually get it right, but sometimes it takes a while.

FFG has to risk the blow back for not releasing it on time vs. releasing it too early. Sometimes you make a bad call when you pick one.

The app will be fine enough soon. This doesn't give a representation about 2nd Ed and how it stands.

45 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Yeah, it does matter. Why settle for mediocrity when excellence is an option?

And yet if you have a gourmet meal, you already have excellence. Using a spork does not make it mediocre; it simply means you're insisting on treating excellence as mediocrity. In all honesty, that just sounds a bit petty to me.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

I work with developers for a living. They can be notorious for getting things done right on a timeline. Yes, there are times when it works right and on time. Those days are rare. They eventually get it right, but sometimes it takes a while.

FFG has to risk the blow back for not releasing it on time vs. releasing it too early. Sometimes you make a bad call when you pick one.

The app will be fine enough soon. This doesn't give a representation about 2nd Ed and how it stands.

As it stands the best we can really hope for is something that's functional enough to have been acceptable about 5 years ago or so when all was fields. Sure, they can just do a redesign, maybe do something to get a better level of quality control etc, but considering this is what they have to show for all their lead up time... it's not good at all on a pretty fundamental level.

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

And yet if you have a gourmet meal, you already have excellence. Using a spork does not make it mediocre; it simply means you're insisting on treating excellence as mediocrity. In all honesty, that just sounds a bit petty to me.

Dude, I have no idea why you're reacting negatively to my disappointment. I have every right to be disappointed. I didn't say I was mad or even upset - I'm DISAPPOINTED. My analogy stands. If I pay $150 for a meal (I have and enjoyed it every time) I expect it be served on a nice plate with a great presentation and expect to be supplied with proper utensils. It's perfectly acceptable to be disappointed in FFG's lackluster performance with regard to their app development. The game is excellent, but the app is abysmal. It doesn't sound like you're defending the app either, just attacking me for no good reason.

Weren't there supposed to be prizes at launch parties for anyone who could make a squad with the app? When they announced that it sounded like money for jam...

1 minute ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Dude, I have no idea why you're reacting negatively to my disappointment. I have every right to be disappointed. I didn't say I was mad or even upset - I'm DISAPPOINTED. My analogy stands. If I pay $150 for a meal (I have and enjoyed it every time) I expect it be served on a nice plate with a great presentation and expect to be supplied with proper utensils. It's perfectly acceptable to be disappointed in FFG's lackluster performance with regard to their app development. The game is excellent, but the app is abysmal. It doesn't sound like you're defending the app either, just attacking me for no good reason.

I don't play the game, but have a massive collection. I have been here since the beginning. And I can't agree more to the statement above.

"Disappointed" would be a weak adjective to describe my feelings if I actively played. They have had more than a year to get this app reasonably functional. What they have delivered is a joke. And that is me being polite about it. There is no defense for this. This is especially true considering the fact that playing 2.0 is MOSTLY wrapped around using this app.

Now we have poor app testing to go along with poor play testing. This does not place FFG in a very good light.

the thing is, the app is now an integral part of the game.

it has been hyped for months as a game changer.

what was released is pathetic compared to the rest of the game.

disappointment is justified.

people should be held accountable.

I imagine the designers are shaking their heads and muttering WTF.

wouldn't want to be at FFG yesterday

And yes, you can use the PDF point sheets but they have changed since their release.

sad to think they did this to one of their flag ship games.

2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I work with developers for a living. They can be notorious for getting things done right on a timeline. Yes, there are times when it works right and on time. Those days are rare. They eventually get it right, but sometimes it takes a while.

FFG has to risk the blow back for not releasing it on time vs. releasing it too early. Sometimes you make a bad call when you pick one.

The app will be fine enough soon. This doesn't give a representation about 2nd Ed and how it stands.

It's fine in terms of X-Wing, it's poor play in terms of the executing against your strategy. The iOS app just dropped and is riddled with the same bugs that were around yesterday. I understand that the Apple store has a longer certification period which can delay the deploy of the app. But it's not like this is news as of yesterday, the team should've been aware and had a plan. I'm shocked at how poorly managed this whole deal is from the app side. Can't thank the community enough for LaunchBayNext (which was done by one person).

16 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Dude, I have no idea why you're reacting negatively to my disappointment. I have every right to be disappointed. I didn't say I was mad or even upset - I'm DISAPPOINTED. My analogy stands. If I pay $150 for a meal (I have and enjoyed it every time) I expect it be served on a nice plate with a great presentation and expect to be supplied with proper utensils. It's perfectly acceptable to be disappointed in FFG's lackluster performance with regard to their app development. The game is excellent, but the app is abysmal. It doesn't sound like you're defending the app either, just attacking me for no good reason.

I can understand the disappointment, but I don't get the "I just wasted $150" attitude. I could almost understand someone passing 2.0 altogether because of the app (though even that sounds a bit extreme), but if you've already spent the money, why not make the most of it?

It's just frustrating seeing people pass on an excellent meal just because it's not on china with real silverware, when paper plates and plasticware don't change the taste at all.

13 hours ago, player3137305 said:

I also work on a company with projects and budgets in the order of hundreds of millions of USD and we don't have products like this at launch. I'll be interested to know what company you work for so that we never do business with you.

I can't believe how much the X-Wing community tolerates mediocrity from FFG. It is quite insulting to the player base.

Yea, because you have the budget for beta testing before moving it into production.

5 hours ago, Embir82 said:

Are there seriously fanboys that defend FFG in this situation?

People without FUNDS, working in their FREE TIME, for NO MONEY, made better fan-made apps and on-line tools, having about 4 MONTHS since X-Wing 2.0 has been announced.
Meanwhile FFG had resources, time and IP to do whatever they like - and they failed massively.

Luckily I prefer pdf version of available upgrades and card costs, and I actually plan to print them, given amateurish level of FFG when it comes to their app. But imagine how dissapointed were people that came to LGS to play X-Wing at the day of the premiere only to get to know that squadron builder is just a big joke, not even qualifying as a working application.

None of those even attempt to do what ffg is trying to do.

And there are plenty of ways to build lists. If anyone threw a fit over it yesterday I’m pretty sure my local group would look at them like a toddler throwing a tantrum. There are plenty of ways to build lists. Nobody is being harmed, lol.

also, FFG never, ever has time and IP to do whatever they like. And they certainly don’t have endless resources. They’re a for-profit company that has to justify costs and spending to owners. Beta testing is expensive, time-consuming and will result in exactly the same product within a few weeks that we will get anyways.

Disney controls virtually all of their decisions, especially when it comes to releasing official content. You have no idea what budgetary or bureaucratic challenges they face.

57 minutes ago, any2cards said:

I don't play the game

poor play testing

???

agreed the "I wasted $150" is hard to understand.

However, I think you are missing the point people are making regarding the app.

In your analogy, the app isn't the utensils or plates.

It is part of the "excellent meal".

So being upset because you ordered a T-bone steak and it came with frozen vegetables is more in line with what people are saying.

The salt in the wound is that 3rd party people have created better apps in less time than what FFGs put out yesterday.

1 hour ago, Handler said:

Weren't there supposed to be prizes at launch parties for anyone who could make a squad with the app? When they announced that it sounded like money for jam...

players had to show that they had downloaded the app or knew where to go to either download it or use the builder website. It was pretty simple stuff. those that did, got a double sided Luke/obsidian alt art.

beta testing doesn't have to be expensive.

I do work in the board game industry and they use play testers for every game.

The play testers usually get a free game and do it to help or get the game out faster.

I don't believe that there aren't any x-wing players who would test the app back in August to make sure it runs smoothly.

Giving them product for their time would be a nice gesture and welcome thank you for helping.

6 minutes ago, robert t said:

agreed the "I wasted $150" is hard to understand.

However, I think you are missing the point people are making regarding the app.

In your analogy, the app isn't the utensils or plates.

It is part of the "excellent meal".

So being upset because you ordered a T-bone steak and it came with frozen vegetables is more in line with what people are saying.

The salt in the wound is that 3rd party people have created better apps in less time than what FFGs put out yesterday.

Facts

32 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I can understand the disappointment, but I don't get the "I just wasted $150" attitude. I could almost understand someone passing 2.0 altogether because of the app (though even that sounds a bit extreme), but if you've already spent the money, why not make the most of it?

It's just frustrating seeing people pass on an excellent meal just because it's not on china with real silverware, when paper plates and plasticware don't change the taste at all.

Yeah, well I am. The app was basically the last straw for me.

56 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Dude, I have no idea why you're reacting negatively to my disappointment. I have every right to be disappointed. I didn't say I was mad or even upset - I'm DISAPPOINTED. My analogy stands. If I pay $150 for a meal (I have and enjoyed it every time) I expect it be served on a nice plate with a great presentation and expect to be supplied with proper utensils. It's perfectly acceptable to be disappointed in FFG's lackluster performance with regard to their app development. The game is excellent, but the app is abysmal. It doesn't sound like you're defending the app either, just attacking me for no good reason.

Yeah, you kinda can't say anything bad about 2.0. It makes people mad at you.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

And yet if you have a gourmet meal, you already have excellence. Using a spork does not make it mediocre; it simply means you're insisting on treating excellence as mediocrity. In all honesty, that just sounds a bit petty to me.

@Bad Idea Comics analogy is sound, as is his disappointment.

After a certain price point, the meal is no longer just about the food, it is about the experience. And if you hand me a spork you have ruined the experience, even if the food is wonderful.

Case in point: I was at a $$$$ French restaurant, that required a jacket. Then, despite the fact that it says right on the menu "no cell phone use in the dining area" some rube is on his phone F-bombing thru most of the meal. No one in the restaurant staff confronted him. The food was fine; the experience sucked. I will never go back.

48 minutes ago, robert t said:

the thing is, the app is now an integral part of the game.

it has been hyped for months as a game changer.

And yes, you can use the PDF point sheets but they have changed since their release.

sad to think they did this to one of their flag ship games.

The PDFs were wrong at release, the app was wrong at release, and the cards are useless to listbuild.

The game has simply changed a having bad meta for a few months to having nothing viable upon release.

And while a bad meta only affected tournament players, now the entire player base is screwed by inaccurate and unreliable gaming materials.

This is the future: nothing will ever correct until several days/weeks/months after release. It's the same problems, managed differently.

4 minutes ago, robert t said:

agreed the "I wasted $150" is hard to understand.

However, I think you are missing the point people are making regarding the app.

In your analogy, the app isn't the utensils or plates.

It is part of the "excellent meal".

So being upset because you ordered a T-bone steak and it came with frozen vegetables is more in line with what people are saying.

The salt in the wound is that 3rd party people have created better apps in less time than what FFGs put out yesterday.

To be fair, I started out disagreeing with the analogy (though for different reasons).

Though. Maybe I'm just having an easier time coping because I ordered a different side (PDF printouts du jour), which were prepared quite satisfactorily.

haven't the PDFs changed since the release though?

If not, I will have to resort to them for gaming this weekend. ?

1 minute ago, robert t said:

haven't the PDFs changed since the release though?

If not, I will have to resort to them for gaming this weekend. ?

there were some minor updates but the current ones are downloadable. and you can always use launch bay next or YASB 2.0. or even quick build cards.

1 minute ago, robert t said:

haven't the PDFs changed since the release though?

If not, I will have to resort to them for gaming this weekend. ?

Since the PDFs were released? Yes. This week? I don't know for sure, but I didn't notice any changes with the list I made last week.

8 minutes ago, robert t said:

haven't the PDFs changed since the release though?

Yes. About 4 hours after released, they were re-released with numerous errors spotted by the forums.

Now that everything is fully adjustable, it seems that nothing will come out fully finished. And you can never be sure anything is correct.

8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

About 4 hours after released, they were re-released with numerous errors spotted by the forums.

did those things not get fixed? I thought they had but didn't really pay that much attention as I was waiting for yesterday to really dive in. Well, Sunday, as our last 1st ed tourney is tomorrow.