Hey there, first time on the forums, so my friend is a first time GM and he's going to be running a campaign based around a group of clone commandos, he wanted the party members to have the choice of using a DC-17m for obvious reasons, we are doing knight level play, so we're fairly advanced, I've played as a character and GM'd quite a few times now so I decided to make my own variant for his campaign for the party members to use.

Name Skill Range Dmg Crit Encum HP Price Special

DC-17m Ranged (Light) Medium 8 3 3 4 2000 Stun Setting, Pierce 1, Vicious 2, Sniper mode

Sniper mode: Skill changed to Ranged(Heavy), Range changed from Medium to long, gains the Accurate 1 Quality

Let me know what you think, thanks!

Anti-Vehicular mode: Skill Ranged(Heavy); Weapon us the following charistics, DMG 11, Crit 2, Breach 1, Slow Firing 2, looses Pierce 1 and Vicious 2.

8 hours ago, Kalronus said:

Ranged (Light)

...why? Comparable weapons all use Ranged heavy. Ranged Light is typically for pistols and other weapons that only require 1 hand to use. Don't see these things being dual wielded...

8 hours ago, Kalronus said:

Range: Medium Damage: 8 Crit: 3 

Fine.

8 hours ago, Kalronus said:

E  ncum: 3

Probably ok if the modular components each have a separate Encumbrance value. Way too light if that's the Enc for the entire weapon system.

8 hours ago, Kalronus said:

HP: 4

For this thing it probably has few, if any HP. The modular nature of the total weapon system would make up for the fact you can't attach anything additional to it.

8 hours ago, Kalronus said:

Stun Setting, Pierce 1, Vicious 2,

Way too much. Dump Pierce and Vicious. I'd be willing to talk about adding Auto-fire, but I don't think it's really needed.

8 hours ago, Kalronus said:

Sniper mode: Skill changed to Ranged(Heavy), Range changed from Medium to long, gains the Accurate 1 Quality

As mentioned I think the skill can stay Heavy across the board. Range to Long is fine, Accurate is ok, and here's where I'd say add a rank or two of pierce, but also I'd look at adding slow-firing to keep this from being used in situations where the standard configuration makes more sense.

1 hour ago, Paris Teta said:

DMG 11, Crit 2, Breach 1, Slow Firing 2,

Damage 10 will be fine, with Breach 1 that will allow this to Crit Armor 2 vehicles on only 1 success and 2 Advantage/1Triumph. Light vehicles like this should be used against probably only have Armor 2 at most.

I'd also add a blast quality, though I'd keep it kinda low as this is more a shaped charge lobber than true grenade launcher.

Dump slow-firing, replace it with Limited Ammo 1 and list ammo cost/availability/enc like it were a grenade launcher. Slow-firing allows it to be reloaded infinitely with the Extra Reloads item. Giving it a defined ammunition item means the user actually have to carry however many they think they need.

1 hour ago, Ghostofman said:

Damage 10 will be fine, with Breach 1 that will allow this to Crit Armor 2 vehicles on only 1 success and 2 Advantage/1Triumph. Light vehicles like this should be used against probably only have Armor 2 at most.

I'd also add a blast quality, though I'd keep it kinda low as this is more a shaped charge lobber than true grenade launcher.

Dump slow-firing, replace it with Limited Ammo 1 and list ammo cost/availability/enc like it were a grenade launcher. Slow-firing allows it to be reloaded infinitely with the Extra Reloads item. Giving it a defined ammunition item means the user actually have to carry however many they think they need.

Somehow i forgot about the +1 damage from success. I omitted the blast quality on purpose.

How does Extra Reloads preven from slow firing taken effect? Wouldn´´ t a problem with Limit Ammo 1 more?

Thanks for all the ideas guys, very helpful!

1 hour ago, Ghostofman said:

...why? Comparable weapons all use Ranged heavy. Ranged Light is typically for pistols and other weapons that only require 1 hand to use. Don't see these things being dual wielded...

Fine.

Probably ok if the modular components each have a separate Encumbrance value. Way too light if that's the Enc for the entire weapon system.

For this thing it probably has few, if any HP. The modular nature of the total weapon system would make up for the fact you can't attach anything additional to it.

Way too much. Dump Pierce and Vicious. I'd be willing to talk about adding Auto-fire, but I don't think it's really needed.

As mentioned I think the skill can stay Heavy across the board. Range to Long is fine, Accurate is ok, and here's where I'd say add a rank or two of pierce, but also I'd look at adding slow-firing to keep this from being used in situations where the standard configuration makes more sense.

Damage 10 will be fine, with Breach 1 that will allow this to Crit Armor 2 vehicles on only 1 success and 2 Advantage/1Triumph. Light vehicles like this should be used against probably only have Armor 2 at most.

I'd also add a blast quality, though I'd keep it kinda low as this is more a shaped charge lobber than true grenade launcher.

Dump slow-firing, replace it with Limited Ammo 1 and list ammo cost/availability/enc like it were a grenade launcher. Slow-firing allows it to be reloaded infinitely with the Extra Reloads item. Giving it a defined ammunition item means the user actually have to carry however many they think they need.

Also, with the Hard Points being 4, the idea is that the sniper mode and anti-tank mode tank up 2 hard points, and reading up on it, blastech added 2 additiononal attachments throughout the clone wars, so I figured it would be good to leave that open ended for everyone in the group and especially since we have a Technician-Modder

On 9/13/2018 at 11:22 AM, Paris Teta said:

How does Extra Reloads preven from slow firing taken effect? Wouldn´´ t a problem with Limit Ammo 1 more?

Extra Reloads doesn't prevent slow firing.

Slow firing says how often you can fire a weapon.

Limited Ammo says how often you need to reload, and in the case of things that require specialty ammo (bows & arrows, missile launchers, grenade launchers, ect) every time you want to reload you'll need to have said ammo available.

Extra Reloads is basically an entire bandolier or something filled with mundane ammo that allows you to ignore "out of ammo" by just taking a maneuver. It's rig of blaster packs, a pouch full of shotgun shells, a belt of energy cells, whatever. It's so many that from the game system perspective it's "infinite ammo." It's just assumed you always have "enough." Think of movies and how the guy shown with a lot of pouches never runs out of ammo even if he shoots his weapon over and over and over. Same thing here.

In the case of a light anti-vehicle/heavy droid weapon like this thing, it's good against light vehicles, but can get ugly if spammed against people. If you give it Limited Ammo 1, and say each additional warehead is something like 300 credits, rarity 6, and 1 enc, then the player has to acquire each shot, and carry it on their person. When talking a commando-type likely to use this weapon, Encumbrance is something that adds up fast, so a trooper isn't likely to carry more than a handful of these grenades, and by extension isn't just going to lob them at every battledroid minion group that shows it's faces.

Giving it slow-firing means it can be shot repeatedly, just at the specified rate but with no required reloading or ammo count. If you do get an "out of Ammo" result from a despair or something, the argument could be made its "mundane" as it doesn't have limited ammo or specify specialty ammo types, and boom, it's reloadable and you keep shooting it.

On 9/13/2018 at 11:34 AM, Kalronus said:

Also, with the Hard Points being 4, the idea is that the sniper mode and anti-tank mode tank up 2 hard points, and reading up on it, blastech added 2 additiononal attachments throughout the clone wars, so I figured it would be good to leave that open ended for everyone in the group and especially since we have a Technician-Modder

I get where you're coming from, but I think you need really run the numbers here and consider the use of the weapon system and how it translates to in-game benefits.

Encumbrance

The DC-17m's advantage is that it's 3 weapons at a dramatically reduced Encumbrance, allowing even a loaded to the gills commando to carry the "right tool for the job" and still be able to actual walk.

For comparison, look at a blaster carbine (3) + a heavy non-auto-fire rifle (7) + a grenade launcher (2 + extra grenades) and you've got 13 Encumbrance taken up by weapons alone. Add on Armor, extra ammo, grenades, field gear, and mission specific items and that trooper's going to need a forklift to carry him into battle.

So the DC-17 can be allowed to switch out attachments, but it does so by stripping down everything to save weight.

By default you've got your Blaster Carbine, a Designated Marksman rifle, and a Armor Piercing launcher. In all a valid descriptor would be to say the assembled weapon is something like 3 enc, with each attachment being 1 or 2 enc separately.

So giving the total 3-weapon system a total Enc of something like 6 or 7 is really good. Katarn Armor is only 4 enc, so only 1 Enc when worn.

So, Take a DC-17 at say (7) enc, add worn armor (1) and say 2 spare AP grenades for the launcher (2) = 10 Enc

Now take the Commando, and assume at least 3 Brawn (base ET of Eight) and their armor has integrated load bearing gear (+3 ET), the modular backpack matches the description of the Alliance pack (+6 ET with 2 storage modules) = 17 ET

And that leaves 7 Enc for other stuff. Republic Commandos aren't long-range fighters, with more of a SEAL team's "Go there, do that, get out" mission profile, so that works. And in a more clear-cut mission a commando can opt to not take the whole system, and stick to just the attachment needed for the job

Jack of all trades

As mentioned, you've got a good mid-close rifle, a designated marksman's weapon (though not really a "sniper" rifle) and a armor penetrating grenade launcher all in one light package. It takes a lot to get there. So adding additional gear is going to be awkward.

Fluff-wise , why? If you need a real sniper rifle you don't get to add a marksman barrel, you should carry a real sniper rifle. If you need a real anti-tank weapon or grenade launcher, you carry that instead of this. The DC-17 is a really good all-arounder that is fantastic for a commando going in with little intel, but it's not a replacement for specialized weapons. If I'm going on a long-range kill mission where I know in advance I have to hump it half way in and out, I'm not carrying 3 weapons I'm not sure I'll need. I'm going to carry a Proton Rifle or something, and MAYBE a light pistol as backup. But if I see a tank, or armored spider droid? I'm not engaging that, I'm slipping past, moving around, or aborting.

Mechanics-wise , this could get REALLY confusing. Does this count as a carbine, rifle, or launcher? If I remove the standard modules can I replace them with something non-standard? Can I shoot the specialty AP grenades out of a normal launcher? If so can I dump the specialty launcher module and get an under-barrel launcher instead so I don't have to swap out modules?

See, it get's awkward.

Make the DC-17m's flexibility it's strong point, with it's non-specialty it's weakness. It's 3 guns for the Enc of 2, allowing it to be a good "all comers" option. But, it can take only it's modules, and has no organic HP (with would still allow a Tinkerer to add 1 HP if he so desired, giving it a little room for limited upgrades) so it's good for what it's good for, but it's not perfect for everything.

If you want to give your Modder something to play with, the separatist option of the DDC-MR6 is a better fit, as it has more HP, and a special rule that better matches a Modder's strengths.