I would just concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer.

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

I'd send a swarm of Y-Wings, Norra, and Jan to park somewhere in front of it and just open fire. For all that bluster it only has two redirects, let's see how long it'll hold out against what, Nine squadrons of Y-Wings?

If I were serious about this I'd roll out the entire fighter aces support bregade surrounding those 3 B-Wings for Yavaris to tripple tap, rip shields off, and shove the SSD's spine down it throat.

Rebels don't need any specific anti-huge ship counter. They have all they need by the best and most self-suffiicent fighter bombers in the game to kill large ships with attrition. It'll be a contest against any SSD running TIE Interceptors specifically to counter this list type, at least. But as long as rebel crap is cheaper than the Empire it's just a matter of shooting the SSD so many times to either make damage stick or blow through the ship's defense tokens rapidly.

While I agree that rebel bombers probably have the best chance of overheating SSD's token suite and bringing the beast down, I don't think either Norra or Nym are likely to do much against a ship with double contain, which is nearly guaranteed to bring DCO.

13 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

But I have oc Kallus and QLT on my SSD. And who knows what else might be in that box.

Plus my own squads. I don't think u will last long.

I've had my share of large ships die easily to well-flown Rieekan ace balls designed and bidded to be second player. I've learned never to underestimate them, even with my own fighter cover.

It will be a tossup if an SSD is configured like a carrier to throw interceptors or something into the fray and mix it up. But assuring it will have supremacy over second player Yavaris aces designed for these kinds of ambushes? I'll believe it when I see it.

11 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

"Common" SSD versions have good front arc of 8 dice. Pretty big one too, and can take GT. Side arcs are 5 dice, but that's actually pretty mean to lighter ships.

But Ackbar cruisers should have no problem getting into the side or aux arc and staying there, doing double broadsides.

Just the possibility of this should keep SSD spam in check.

Take a Raddus bomb. The SSD can't be everywhere- take the long way around and drop that 75 in close range into the aux arc.

Just now, Lightrock said:

While I agree that rebel bombers probably have the best chance of overheating SSD's token suite and bringing the beast down, I don't think either Norra or Nym are likely to do much against a ship with double contain, which is nearly guaranteed to bring DCO.

It's still going to exhaust them. If that B-Wing tripple-tap kicks off as intended, DCO is going to have to defend 6 times against all of that. After the first two, it's going to have to either eat those hits or choose to spend the tokens. What it doesn't deflect, it's going to absorb. Yeah it might have the most we've seen on any ship, but it's not infinite, and it's not scatter.

8 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

While I agree that rebel bombers probably have the best chance of overheating SSD's token suite and bringing the beast down, I don't think either Norra or Nym are likely to do much against a ship with double contain, which is nearly guaranteed to bring DCO.

An SSD can be made really easy "squadron proof". Kallus, Quad Laser Turrets and a few squadrons (4-5 Tie Interceptors are already enough) and you should be able to kill any squadron lists that come for you.

But this is a hard counter against squadron lists, and wasted when the opponent does not have squadrons. I guess it will take some testing with this beast

11 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

I've had my share of large ships die easily to well-flown Rieekan ace balls designed and bidded to be second player. I've learned never to underestimate them, even with my own fighter cover.

It will be a tossup if an SSD is configured like a carrier to throw interceptors or something into the fray and mix it up. But assuring it will have supremacy over second player Yavaris aces designed for these kinds of ambushes? I'll believe it when I see it.

Take a Raddus bomb. The SSD can't be everywhere- take the long way around and drop that 75 in close range into the aux arc.

I think Ackbar, Rieekan (squads or otherwise) and Raddus are all good counters. So SSD will not auto-dominate. But they will be viable.

5 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

It's still going to exhaust them. If that B-Wing tripple-tap kicks off as intended, DCO is going to have to defend 6 times against all of that. After the first two, it's going to have to either eat those hits or choose to spend the tokens. What it doesn't deflect, it's going to absorb. Yeah it might have the most we've seen on any ship, but it's not infinite, and it's not scatter.

Ap and two contain is good protection, if paired with own squads.

If left unopposed, sure they kill it.

Just now, Tokra said:

An SSD can be made really easy "squadron proof". Kallus, Quad Laser Turrets and a few squadrons (4-5 Tie Interceptors are already enough) and you should be able to kill any squadron lists that come for you.

But this is a hard counter against squadron lists, and wasted when the opponent does not have squadrons. I guess it will take some testing with this beast

If Kallus proves to be too much of a problem I expect a return to generic squadrons, possibly protected by Jan Ors lurking behind. Generic bwings still hit like a truck and are Kallus-proof (not to mention more numerous than ace squadrons due to being cheaper). Interceptors might be an issue but it's unlikely SSD will be able to bring too many of them. Even just a couple of Xwings with Adar and Yavaris will probably clear them in one or two rounds and let the bombers do their job.

7 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

If Kallus proves to be too much of a problem I expect a return to generic squadrons, possibly protected by Jan Ors lurking behind. Generic bwings still hit like a truck and are Kallus-proof (not to mention more numerous than ace squadrons due to being cheaper). Interceptors might be an issue but it's unlikely SSD will be able to bring too many of them. Even just a couple of Xwings with Adar and Yavaris will probably clear them in one or two rounds and let the bombers do their job.

We could use some more generic bombers!

We shouldn't focus too much on how the SSD is going to be fitted (except, I agree, for stuff like people going for DCO). We don't know enough about the ship, and the one profile we got so far seems to be a carrier SSD.

And the Biggs / Riekkan combo makes for tough, long to kill squadrons.

10 minutes ago, Coranhann said:

We shouldn't focus too much on how the SSD is going to be fitted (except, I agree, for stuff like people going for DCO). We don't know enough about the ship, and the one profile we got so far seems to be a carrier SSD.

And the Biggs / Riekkan combo makes for tough, long to kill squadrons.

Well, you are right. But if you want to know how to fight it, you need to know how to fit it (know your Enemy ).

And yes. As long as we don't know the full rules and all cards from the ship, it is hard to decide.
Maybe the Executor titel is a 360° Early Warning System (15 points, all attacks against this ship are obstructed) or even worse, a Bright Hope Effect (before you suffer damage, reduce the total damage by 1). This would totally ruin the bomber/squadron idea .

1 hour ago, Tokra said:

Well, you are right. But if you want to know how to fight it, you need to know how to fit it (know your Enemy ).

And yes. As long as we don't know the full rules and all cards from the ship, it is hard to decide.
Maybe the Executor titel is a 360° Early Warning System (15 points, all attacks against this ship are obstructed) or even worse, a Bright Hope Effect (before you suffer damage, reduce the total damage by 1). This would totally ruin the bomber/squadron idea .

I don't mind that as long as there's a rule that says "if an A-wing at distance 1 of you is destroyed, roll 1 black die. On a crit result, you receive 22 damage cards."

11 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

We already have a counter. XI-7

This.

It's not about the 22 hull (ok, it's not ONLY about the 22 hull), it's about the 20 shields. DCO + Tua + Advanced Projectors sounds like a good idea on a SSD, which means you also have to punch through a large amount of shields.

So either you bring XI7 or a way to overload redirects, so bombers, or 12 A-Wings for thematic reasons. Mon Karren is also an option.

I'm hoping new upgrades come out to help with this as I'm not too thrilled about XI7 becoming ubiquitous. There's also some ships that will struggle mightily, Ordnance MC75 being one of them (and very dear to my heart).

The MC75 is the only ship with a double contain at the moment and DCO on it is pretty annoying...but it has single tokens and is all in all relatively flimsy. The SSD is a new level of annoyance.

So a Raddus fleet with a LMC80 with ET to flank the SSD, and a MC75 to double arc it on one side could do the trick. That, a flotilla and a few fighters. Would work against many list AND could punch the SSD hard enough & often enough that it would go down before the two cruisers.

No ?

2 minutes ago, Coranhann said:

So a Raddus fleet with a LMC80 with ET to flank the SSD, and a MC75 to double arc it on one side could do the trick. That, a flotilla and a few fighters. Would work against many list AND could punch the SSD hard enough & often enough that it would go down before the two cruisers.

No ?

Short answer: we don't know (yet).

Without the full info of the rules and all cards it is all theory crafting.

Right, right. I was focusing on a rebel fleet capable of putting out 35 or so damages without dying too quickly.

I think it depends on (possible) special rules we may see soon, how this huge whale has to be deployed at the table and how to play (against) it.

For further counter-SSD-thoughts I would assume that:

- 400pts are still our common point limit

- SSD cant change direction without nav-command or Moff Jerry (we even dont now if Jerry works with it)

So we can imagine this huge whale on the table, not able to turn and with just a few squadrons or maybe 1 other small-sized ship around it. This whale with a deadly front arc but the same amount of dice in the back and auxilliary left/right arcs like an Interdictor.

My counter against this monster? Shoot at it. Stay away from the front arc, which seems to will be very easy, and do your job on that big hippo butt. I think 2 MC30c Torpedo frigates at its back would be enough. The only critical aspect of this would be the question whether you provide 22 (or more) damage cards to it before the game ends or not...

Anyway I think the SSD is perfect for custom/narrative games or campaigns, 600-800pts games or for Corellian Conflict campaign - but not for our "standard" 400pts games..

Regards

Jimbo

5 minutes ago, Coranhann said:

So a Raddus fleet with a LMC80 with ET to flank the SSD, and a MC75 to double arc it on one side could do the trick. That, a flotilla and a few fighters. Would work against many list AND could punch the SSD hard enough & often enough that it would go down before the two cruisers.

No ?

It's all theorycrafting of course, but my gut feeling is that you might not be hitting often enough. It's only 4 attacks (+ the fighters), so if, say, you have a HIE and APT combo, you'll overload the contain, which will allow 2 APT shots to get through... but then you still have the double brace/redirect to contend with. 4 attacks means the SSD can elect to use one token per attack. It will eat damage, but I wonder if it'll eat enough, fast enough.

If you go the crit route, I'd try MC75 + 2xMC30 with Dodonna. It's 6 attacks, which will overload the contains much faster and still put stress on the brace and redirect once the contains are down. And you can fish for Projector Misaligned with Dodonna to make the redirects useless. But then your problem is navigating all this properly and not ram yourself to death.

15 minutes ago, Coranhann said:

Right, right. I was focusing on a rebel fleet capable of putting out 35 or so damages without dying too quickly.

A little theory crafting:
9 Hammerhead with External Racks + Task Force Organa. And Leia Organa (or Ackbar, if you are good in getting the SSD in left and right arc) as Commander.

Each has 1 red, 1 blue, 3 black and one of any color from Concentrate fire. 3 Rerolls. Even with all the redirect and brace there is still a lot of damage coming in. But you might loose to many Hammerheads in the time. But you might need only 2 turns to burn down the SSD. Not to mention the mass of ramming damage you can do

Or Ackbar with 5x MC30 and one CR90.
The MC30 have the smalles front arc of all the small ships. Easy to get the SSD into both side arcs for +4 red dice. Maybe skip the CR90 for ECM on all MC30.

Cracken trc corvettes. That thing doesnt have too many reds on the sides.

You're trying to overload tokens. I'm trying to hit hard and often to overload the damage card : One huge attack from Mon Karren (but only 1 token, so add Heavy Turbolaser maybe?), two 5 dices attacks from MC75. Something like 13/15 damage per turn. SSD will do 2 or 3 times 4 or 5 damages which both ships can handle for more than 2 turns. I'm considering both rebels ships are on the side, as they have superior agility (LMC80+ET) or placement (MC75 with Raddus).

I was just answering because I don't feel the SSD will break the game. It looks like (as we don't have enough info so far) it will just work as a hard counter against some list, and be countered by other. Nothing awful there

Tokra : I love your MC30 idea. These can indeed wreak havok on the SSD in a single turn.

5 minutes ago, Coranhann said:

You're trying to overload tokens. I'm trying to hit hard and often to overload the damage card : One huge attack from Mon Karren (but only 1 token, so add Heavy Turbolaser maybe?), two 5 dices attacks from MC75. Something like 13/15 damage per turn. SSD will do 2 or 3 times 4 or 5 damages which both ships can handle for more than 2 turns. I'm considering both rebels ships are on the side, as they have superior agility (LMC80+ET) or placement (MC75 with Raddus).

I was just answering because I don't feel the SSD will break the game. It looks like (as we don't have enough info so far) it will just work as a hard counter against some list, and be countered by other. Nothing awful there

Tokra : I love your MC30 idea. These can indeed wreak havok on the SSD in a single turn.

Oh, I agree that if it's released for 400 point games, it's likely going to be balanced.

I don't think your plan is bad, I'm just partial to punching damage through as getting my sweet LMC80 front arc braced and redirected makes me sad :(

I don't like being sad.

Hence the heavy turbolaster ... your baby has 2 TL slots, so you can use one for that.

10 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Ram Damage on the Vettes, since they can't do it themselves without banking a token first.

What I mean is the CR90s would have to get past the front half of the SSD to avoid likely being instakilled. It is the most maneuverable ship in the game but that's still a challenge, especially with Jerjerrod at the helm...

12 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

What I mean is the CR90s would have to get past the front half of the SSD to avoid likely being instakilled. It is the most maneuverable ship in the game but that's still a challenge, especially with Jerjerrod at the helm...

Front arc is no different from an ISD-II, and CR90s have been dodging those for five waves.