13 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/159b1oJZRaVUYjhxYXA1XDjv4lD9F0pJTCektLxSxyRw/edit?usp=sharing

These are fantastic, if you have more I'd love if you shared them with us.

Part of the problem is that Armada is so ship based.

The rebellions tactics have been from the beginnings of the EU (and hasn't changed) being described as very fighter based hit and run. (Hence all Rebel fighters using hyperdrives.) The few raids were Nebs at most taking unarmed convoys or beating the small ships like the Carracks that were used (Which might as well be the Raiders). Nebs being built to deal with the tactics, then being hijacked by Rebels, so much so that they are considered basically Rebel ships.

If all the Rebels had Rogue, or something like that, I could see the scenarios working. With the current mechanics, not so much. (Maybe existing rogues can either fire or move an extra time? or have a point cost reduction.)

The Rebels didn't have many big ships, and were very reluctant to risk them because of it. Look at Scariff, as an example, that was, if you ignore the Death Star plans, actually a loss for the Alliance, comparing the relative numbers. Even though they knocked out two ISDs. Looking at the movies, they had 2 victories , 3 if you count Scariff: The destruction of Death Star 1, Destruction of Death Star 2. That's it.

2 hours ago, Captain ICT said:

Part of the problem is that Armada is so ship based.

The rebellions tactics have been from the beginnings of the EU (and hasn't changed) being described as very fighter based hit and run. (Hence all Rebel fighters using hyperdrives.) The few raids were Nebs at most taking unarmed convoys or beating the small ships like the Carracks that were used (Which might as well be the Raiders). Nebs being built to deal with the tactics, then being hijacked by Rebels, so much so that they are considered basically Rebel ships.

If all the Rebels had Rogue, or something like that, I could see the scenarios working. With the current mechanics, not so much. (Maybe existing rogues can either fire or move an extra time? or have a point cost reduction.)

The Rebels didn't have many big ships, and were very reluctant to risk them because of it. Look at Scariff, as an example, that was, if you ignore the Death Star plans, actually a loss for the Alliance, comparing the relative numbers. Even though they knocked out two ISDs. Looking at the movies, they had 2 victories , 3 if you count Scariff: The destruction of Death Star 1, Destruction of Death Star 2. That's it.

Well to be fair to the movies, there was only like 4 battles

2 hours ago, clontroper5 said:

Well to be fair to the movies, there was only like 4 battles

True,

ANH:

It says Scariff was a disputable Rebel victory in the opening crawl
C90 vs ISD (Assuming the ISD has tractor beams, the way this ends is fairly accurate in Armada) Imperial Victory
TIE fighters vs Falcon (Not sure how this would go in Armada, if it's a thrown fight, as implied.)
Snub Fighters vs DS1 Rebel Victory

ESB:
Rebels driven from base (opening crawl): Imperial Victory

Hoth: Imperial Victory

Asteroid belt chase: Tie(s blow up) not really a 'victory' for either.
Cloud City: Escape, but Imperial Victory (ground).

RotJ:

Endor: SUCK IT IMPERIAL SCUM, 3x Rebel Victories. (Just for clontroper5. Ground, Lightsaber and Space.)


RO:
That one platform planet: Meh. Not sure who would be considered to have won that.
Scariff: IMO, disputable Imperial Victory in terms of Armada. Rebel victory in terms of DS plans. (Consider with the start of ANH: aside from a very few ships which hypered out, they got pretty much tabled.)


So overall: 2 undisputed on screen Imperial Victories, 2 Rebel victories.
Off-screen/Disputable: 3 Rebel victories, 4 Imperial Victories.

If I missed a battle (things like the cloud cars vs the falcon I'm not even going to consider.) I'm gonna be sad. (Haven't seen the new Solo movie, but I've been told it's not a Rebels vs Imperials.)

The opening crawl of ANH says Scatiff was the Rebels’ first victory. So likely many battles before - no victories...

On ‎09‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 5:20 PM, Woobyluv said:

Well, I'm working on a way to incorporate imperial assault, legion, x-wing, and armada into a campaign. Each stage of the campaign will be a battle for a world, moon, star base, or whatever. Not every game will be represented in every location, due to dispersion of assets throughout the galaxy. The first test on arriving at the mission area is will there be a space battle? What scale? To determine this, we will use a battle mat with hex spaces and arrange the map to represent the star system the objective area is in. Using markers for each fleet the players have an opportunity to maneuver to either form a blockade or otherwise engage the enemy (Inspiration from the Battletech system-wide engagement rules). Will probably use Star Wars Rebellion markers. So once a space battle occurs or not, the players determine the forces on the ground to see if a battle occurs at the objective area (Legion), or if a strike team is needed for a specific objective (imperial assault). Legion is used to simulate either large scale ground operations zoomed in or skirmishes of a size larger than a strike team. A flow chart for the path to victory is drawn up for each side. This flowchart is different for each world or whatever the objective is. An example of what I'm talking about is:

Scenario: Subjugation of Ryloth

Imperial Victory: Seize control of 6 of the 9 objectives. One must be the Capital City.

Rebel Victory: Maintain control of 4 of the 9 objectives. One must be Secret Rebel Hideout.

It will be like a chess game with the players deciding what forces are where in the system based on a point system. No one side will be able to overpower the enemy in all areas due to limited points for both sides. The empire for example could be fleet heavy to secure the space objectives. The rebels could be starfighter heavy to secure the atmosphere. When one side wins a majority of objectives in an area that team gets a 1 time use boost. Space superiority allows orbital bombardment of a target making seizing that objective easier. Atmospheric superiority allows starfighters to provide ground support to troops with a slightly less powerful bombing run. Those details will have to be worked out though.

Space, 2 objectives ---> Atmosphere, 2 objectives ---> Power Station, 1 objective ---> Capital City, 1 objective ---> Industrial Site, 2 objectives ---> Secret Rebel Hideout, 1 objective

The map will be drawn to show how each connects to eachother so it will be somewhat like risk in that you can't just attack what you want, it has to be connected.

I know it sounds complicated but I don't really think it's that bad. Anyway, just an idea of what I was thinking of doing.

A couple friends and I actually devised some basic ideas for a super game.

Use Rebellion as the foundation of the game. Each piece in the game is given a point value to use in other games. I forget the actual values, but basically each piece in Rebellion actually represented multiple pieces in the other games. So a Star Destroyer was a 400 point battle group in Armada.

Rebellion Space combat was resolved with Armada. Ground combat was resolved with Legion.

Instead of just rolling dice for other events in rebellion, we played them out in X-wing and IA. So if you have some sort of ground based sabotage mission in Rebellion, instead of rolling the dice, you'd pick an appropriate IA scenario and play it out. If you had some sort of space based type rebellion mission, it was played out with X-wing.

The idea sounded fun, and actually increased the tension dramatically...but it was plagued by the same issue all super games have....it takes freaking forever. A single turn in Rebellion would result in multiple rounds of IA, Armada, X-wing, and Legion. Including set-up/tear-down time, the increased levels of logistical planning needed, etc, the single turn in Rebellion would be a weekend long affair. By the time the round played out, you would completely forget what was going on in the base game of Rebellion. We also quickly realized that there would need to be a ton of playtesting and all kinds of house rules to actually balance things out.

12 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

Stuff

A lot of people start off thinking of campaigns like this. In addition to the time issues you mentioned, a big problem with this sort of game is that strategy in the over-game almost always results in radically lopsided sub-games. If you’re playing rebellion, you choose your battles and don’t engage unless you have a good chance of winning. You don’t attack with your star destroyer battlegroup against a mc-80 battlegroup, you attack a cr-90 size battlegroup. Meaning most of the Armada battles end up being 400 points vs 100 points games (or whatever), which is no fun.

On 9/20/2018 at 7:05 AM, kmanweiss said:

A couple friends and I actually devised some basic ideas for a super game.

Use Rebellion as the foundation of the game. Each piece in the game is given a point value to use in other games. I forget the actual values, but basically each piece in Rebellion actually represented multiple pieces in the other games. So a Star Destroyer was a 400 point battle group in Armada.

Rebellion Space combat was resolved with Armada. Ground combat was resolved with Legion.

I've done something similar to this. I used Armada and Imperial Assault. Here's a link to the Google Sheet: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WpgO6mRhWq2x1nkEQGIfhLBrPbwJpmV8q6fdaXcuJSk

I haven't tested this in a actual game of Rebellion. But I have taken the stats from multiple different Rebellion battles over the course of several games and played those lopsided battles in Armada.

Everything in the Rules tab is certainly a WIP. You can click on the space or land worksheets and enter the units you have from Rebellion and it assigns them a multiplier (see the math tabs). For Armada, I've made it so that every Rebellion unit can correspond to at least 1 Armada unit. Depending on what unit you take, you'll get the option for more or fewer upgrades. I'm really happy with the math and worksheets, but I'm more than happy for any feedback and constructive criticism.

14 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

A lot of people start off thinking of campaigns like this. In addition to the time issues you mentioned, a big problem with this sort of game is that strategy in the over-game almost always results in radically lopsided sub-games. If you’re playing rebellion, you choose your battles and don’t engage unless you have a good chance of winning. You don’t attack with your star destroyer battlegroup against a mc-80 battlegroup, you attack a cr-90 size battlegroup. Meaning most of the Armada battles end up being 400 points vs 100 points games (or whatever), which is no fun.

While I agree to an extent, that is the nature of Rebellion. Like I said above, I've played a handful of scenarios that are highly lopsided, and I've had a blast. Both when I had the upper-hand and when I was outnumbered 2 to 1. For me, part of it was that I have a better control over my own destiny rather than leaving the results purely up to the dice/cards. The other part of it is that as the rebels you can better focus on any objectives you're trying to accomplish; and as the empire you can build a better fleet to try and prevent the rebels from accomplishing said objectives. As long as you know the situation beforehand, I think that lopsided battles done this way have more satisfaction than just playing them for the sake of playing them.

The campaign would have to capture the “cat and mouse” feel of a sector.

I suggest looking at how Rebellion is done for inspiration and adapt a kind of shell game for the campaign.

For an example, have the Rebel player(s) pick the planet in a sector where their base is. Then have the Imperial player(s) disperse their forces thoughout their occupied territory.

Now here’s where design is paramount. Each Imperial held planet will have some kind of physical representation, such as a space station, dockyard, SSD, etc. Each of these representations has several ways to destroy them that are represented by cards. At the beginning of the campaign, each of these has a card randomly drawn and assigned to it that no one gets to see (they should be sealed separately in envelopes). The rebel player needs to collect enough “intel” to figure out how to destroy these representations by being allowed a look at the card.

So you have the early goals of the rebellion to collect intel and/or do strikes to increase supplies, while the Empire is actively hunting them. Once they get intel on a structure they can destroy it (represented by a match of course). This will keep the Imperial player guessing where the rebels will strike and what their fleet will consist of.

As it sort of is with Rebellion, the rebel side wins when they accumulate enough victory points. The Imperial side wins if they completely deplete the rebels of resources or find and destroy their base.

The potential is there for an incredible campaign that truly feels like Star Wars, but there would be a lot to consider for design. I mean a lot... how to gather intel... what to begin with... sector design... it goes on and on.

9 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

The campaign would have to capture the “cat and mouse” feel of a sector.

I suggest looking at how Rebellion is done for inspiration and adapt a kind of shell game for the campaign.

For an example, have the Rebel player(s) pick the planet in a sector where their base is. Then have the Imperial player(s) disperse their forces thoughout their occupied territory.

Now here’s where design is paramount. Each Imperial held planet will have some kind of physical representation, such as a space station, dockyard, SSD, etc. Each of these representations has several ways to destroy them that are represented by cards. At the beginning of the campaign, each of these has a card randomly drawn and assigned to it that no one gets to see (they should be sealed separately in envelopes). The rebel player needs to collect enough “intel” to figure out how to destroy these representations by being allowed a look at the card.

So you have the early goals of the rebellion to collect intel and/or do strikes to increase supplies, while the Empire is actively hunting them. Once they get intel on a structure they can destroy it (represented by a match of course). This will keep the Imperial player guessing where the rebels will strike and what their fleet will consist of.

As it sort of is with Rebellion, the rebel side wins when they accumulate enough victory points. The Imperial side wins if they completely deplete the rebels of resources or find and destroy their base.

The potential is there for an incredible campaign that truly feels like Star Wars, but there would be a lot to consider for design. I mean a lot... how to gather intel... what to begin with... sector design... it goes on and on.

Yea effort is needed haha

I’d also like to see a better take on the resources of the Empire in a campaign.

Sure we all know said resources are considered essentially “endless,” but are they for those issuing commands? It’s still a bureacracy, and a very unforgiving one at that where there’s a lot of people on down the ranks who are looking to take spots.

So I’d like to see that in a campaign. Yeah, as the Imperial player you could ask for three ISDs, but you used them to only take out two Rebel frigates and you let a Mon Calamari design escape? That’s going to cost you.

Seriously, how many times have we seen an admiral, governor, director, etc get reprimanded for a poor use of resources? That angle is the best way to “balance” the Imperial side of a campaign. Essentially you can ask for what you want in points, but if you don’t destroy double what you deploy in Rebel points you’re out of a job... or life if Vader shows up to serve you your discharge papers.

General concept I am working on - still in the idea phase, ideas are welcome:

10 Systems. Empire already controls one of these. Rebel player chooses one of the other "uncontrolled" systems as their secret base.

Empire player wins when they find and destroy the Rebel base. Rebel player wins when they destroy the Empire's HQ or they generate enough "sympathy points" to cause the Empire to retreat from the sector.

Imperial Player begins with 2000 points of ships. Maximum of 1000 can be spent on Large based ships. The Rebellion starts with 800 points, no restrictions. Each side may create up to 3 fleets (Maximum 400 points) and have a reserve force.

Select Systems to battle in, akin to Corellian Conflict. Rebel - Imperial - Rebel. Remaining ships are left at the "hidden base" or Imperial HQ. Play Armada for all locations.

Rebel Victory: gain "sympathy points" equal to 1 per 50 point Margin of Victory (49 pts = 0, 50 pts = 1, 100 pts = 2, etc). Imperial Victory (100+ pts) allows the Empire to "search the planet." If the Imperial player wins by 60-99 points and does not lose a ship, they may still "search."

Sympathy of 5 points causes the system to rebel and join the Rebel Alliance. Note that it may take 2 rounds for a system to rebel. An Imperial Victory in a planet that has 1-4 sympathy points forces subjugation and the number is reduced to 0. Once a system with the hidden rebel base becomes loyal to the Rebellion, the base's location is revealed.

At the end of the round, the Empire player may gain loyalty in any one system they searched. They then "search a planet" by rolling a Red die. If double hits come up, the Rebel player must state if the Rebel Base is hidden in that system. If the system is loyal to the Empire any Hit (or crit) will reveal a hidden base.

Destroyed ships are considered "scarred" and may only be unscarred if they spend the next round in the fleet reserves. Ships may be exchanged between the active fleets and the reserve, but each ship may only move once. Note that this allows you to move a ship from one fleet to another in 2 rounds.

I am thinking that each planet gains some benefit to the rebels (extra ship or upgrades). The Empire gains ships and equipment through a "prestige" system.

Initiative for the following rounds (who makes the 1st and 3rd attacks) goes to the player with the least planets loyal to them. Empire HQ counts as 1 loyal planet.
Planets that joined the Rebel Alliance may not be attacked unless the Rebel Base is there.

Attacking the Rebel Base: Add a station with a Hull equal to 50 points. A maximum of 20 points can be repaired between campaign rounds.
Attacking the Imperial HQ: Add a station with a Hull equal to 100 points. A maximum of 20 points can be repaired between campaign rounds.

@Fraggle_Rock : Would you like to play your campaign as a member of the rebel team? The Empire will start with enough points to field three 400 pts. fleets and still have a reserve of 800 pts. The complete rebel force is only a big as the imperial reserve! They can field three fleets with 266 pts. (Or 1x 400 and 2x 200) and won't have a reserve left. And rebels would have to win several battles in a row with inferior forces to win a planet.

In my eyes it's just unfair if you have to play with 266 pts against 400 pts fleet and must recieve a Margin of Victory of 50+! It would even be difficult to destroy enemy units worth 50 pts before you get tabled.

In your sketch all advantages are with the imperial team: 1) More Fleet Points 2) Rebels need 450 MoV to get a planet, Empire needs 100 MoV to get it back 3) Rebel base has hull equal to 50 pts (whatever that means) and Empire 100

How could the rebel players ever succeed?

The idea of an asymmetrical campaign should be, that you have different possibilities on both sides, but you also should have equal chances to win. In other words: if rebels get less points for fleet building, you would have to give them another crucial advantage to balance the campaign.

Maybe a better way to go about it would be to select ships from the overall pool and have objective based missions that require a smaller fleet build list. I'm still working out the details.

I started to come up with missions in my head, and a entire storyline with a lot of fun twists, but I have no idea how balanced it would be in gameplay terms.

7 hours ago, Zeoinx said:

I started to come up with missions in my head, and a entire storyline with a lot of fun twists, but I have no idea how balanced it would be in gameplay terms.

A story based campaign doesn't have to be balanced. It has to be entertaining.

Balance you need when two sides fight each other, like in a standard match or linked matches like CC.

14 hours ago, Triangular said:

A story based campaign doesn't have to be balanced. It has to be entertaining.

Balance you need when two sides fight each other, like in a standard match or linked matches like CC.

When I say balanced, i mean "Winable within the standard and offical gameplay rules without having to "fudge" or "homebrew" to much, I dont wanna make a unwinnable storyline, I wanna progress the story as the playable team without making the battles "easy or almost auto win" type situation.

On 9/16/2018 at 2:31 AM, Captain ICT said:

(Haven't seen the new Solo movie, but I've been told it's not a Rebels vs Imperials.)

Deleted scene says at least 2 headhunters ( unknown loyalty) vs tie trainee squadron

and of course Mimban sepetarists holdout / place for the empire to dump unwanted and undisciplined troops: Huge waste of resources and life.

On 9/15/2018 at 9:27 PM, Captain ICT said:

Part of the problem is that Armada is so ship based.

The rebellions tactics have been from the beginnings of the EU (and hasn't changed) being described as very fighter based hit and run. (Hence all Rebel fighters using hyperdrives.) The few raids were Nebs at most taking unarmed convoys or beating the small ships like the Carracks that were used (Which might as well be the Raiders). Nebs being built to deal with the tactics, then being hijacked by Rebels, so much so that they are considered basically Rebel ships.

If all the Rebels had Rogue, or something like that, I could see the scenarios working. With the current mechanics, not so much. (Maybe existing rogues can either fire or move an extra time? or have a point cost reduction.)

The Rebels didn't have many big ships, and were very reluctant to risk them because of it. Look at Scariff, as an example, that was, if you ignore the Death Star plans, actually a loss for the Alliance, comparing the relative numbers. Even though they knocked out two ISDs. Looking at the movies, they had 2 victories , 3 if you count Scariff: The destruction of Death Star 1, Destruction of Death Star 2. That's it.

Why not include a rule "all rebel fighters have the rogue keyword in this scenario" ?

Sidenote: If we only look at the Movies, the Empire just had Hoth as a vicotry (actually not even that). And even that was a loss in the space battle.

I guess you are just looking for playing the "X-Wing" or "TIE-Fighter" missions with Armada:

Tour of Duty I - A New Ally

1. Destroy Imperial Convoy

Setup:

Place a imperial BFF-1 Flottilla and a neutral Cr90 in close distance in the middle of the board.

The Rebel Force may be placed anywhere on the board in distance 3 of that ships.

Rebel Forces:

2 X-Wing Squadrons

Lambda-class_Shuttle (Faction set to: Rebel)

Free play:
45 Points of fighters.

Imperial Forces:
Nebulon-B-Escort Frigate (Faction set to: Imperial)
2 Squadrons of TIE-Fighters
BFF-1 Flottila

Free play:
50 Points of ships
18 Points of figthers

Special rules:
The neutral CR90 joins the Rebel Forces, once the Lambda-class_Shuttle spends one activation in base contact with it without attacking or moving.
All Rebel fighters gain the Rogue Keyword.

The Imperial Warships count as having equipped "Rapid Launch Bays"
The Imperial Warships may be placed in Distance 4 to a table edge at the start of the second turn.

Victory conditions:

Rebel Victory points:
+40 Points if the CR90 escapes of the board without a damage card

+30 Points if the CR90 escapes of the board with at least one damage card

+5 Points if the Lambda class shuttles survives the battle
+10 points if both X-Wing squadrons survive the battle
+10 points if both X-Wing squadrons survive the battle without taking more than 1 point of hull damage

Imperial Victory points:

+40 Points if the BFF-1 flottila survives
+50 Points if the BFF-1 flottila survives without a damage card
+5 Points if the Lambda class shuttles are destroyed

+5 points if the CR90 has 3 damage cards but suvives
+15 points if the CR90 is destroyed
+10 points if all enemy X-Wings are destroyed.