1 hour ago, Lochlan said:

Also, what does the fact that his army wasn't painted have to do with anything? Do you feel that makes him beneath you?

Same thing that it has to do with going to a play and the sets aren't any good and the costumes are falling apart.

If all they care about is the rules and numbers and stats, they don't need a miniatures game at all. Play chess, play the stock market, play Settlers of Catan. There's a degree of human error with using the rulers and stuff that's going to impact the outcome of battles more than having a 40mm square base instead of a 40mm round base, or whatever.

I'd rather play a small game against a painted army than a big game against an unpainted one, any day of the week.

4 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Same thing that it has to do with going to a play and the sets aren't good and the costumes are falling apart.

If all you care about is the rules, you don't need a miniatures game at all.

Conversely, if all you care about is the models, you don't need a game at all.

Seriously, what about people who like the rules and mechanics, and want to play against other people (in tournaments or otherwise)? They kinda need the models in order to play. And if they don't want to paint them? That's their choice, and one that is allowed by the rules.

4 hours ago, Lochlan said:

Conversely, if all you care about is the models, you don't need a game at all.

This is very true! That's why I'm a miniature wargamer, neither a boardgamer nor a high end diorama painter. I care about both.

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Seriously, what about people who like the rules and mechanics, and want to play against other people (in tournaments or otherwise)?

There's a ton of other genres games out there that don't use models and which host tournaments.

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They kinda need the models in order to play.

Why if they don't like modelling? Can't they use cardboard discs the size of the bases with "goblin archer" or something written on them? Or better yet, use very basic paintjobs: if you spray paint stormies white, brush paint their guns black and their bases green/brown/etc., they'll look nice enough. I think models should be painted, I'm not saying they should all be a Mona Lisa.

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And if they don't want to paint them? That's their choice, and one that is allowed by the rules.

It is. The rules don't say anything about it. But we're in the context of a decades long tradition of house-ruling all manner of miniature and RPG games (many of which openly encourage this). The hobby is way bigger than the game. The game is bigger than the rules. I won't value the victory of an unpainted army as much as I will a painted one, for several reasons. Someone wiser and more polite than me wrote a bit about this:

11 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

This attitude is why I don't play Warmachine.

I'm sorry if what I said was off-putting to you, but it's not an attitude, it's the definition of a game - an activity structured by rules. You and the people with you might decide you think some of the written rules are too restrictive in some way, and agree not to use them, but you're still following rules...just different ones than came with the game. Even the same number of rules are in place, except your rule is "bases of any shape must be used" instead of "round bases must be used."

I didn't say anything about how I personally would react to someone wanting to use a firing arc widget in a personal game with me, so I'm not sure why you extrapolated me having an attitude from my post.

11 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Your toy spacemen, your rules. He doesn't go to tournaments so I agree with his approach

I stated this, I think twice, in my original post.

It doesn't change the fact that one ought to know when one is choosing to deviate from the rules as written, and that it is going to be perceived as odd if one reacts negatively to people choosing to adhere to those rules.

I don't think anyone said the earlier poster shouldn't or couldn't use these arc widgets in personal play.

5 hours ago, Turan said:

I'm sorry if what I said was off-putting to you, but it's not an attitude, it's the definition of a game - an activity structured by rules.

It's nothing against you specifically, and I probably misunderstood your tone and intent. But the approach of rules above other elements (I've always known everyone to use a even mix) got me to give up on Warmachine. I showed up with a painted army and the gaming group preferred the minutiae of the rules above all else. The game is bigger than the rules and the hobby is bigger than the game. Here I was dealing with a group that was trying to recruit me. I showed up to my first game with a painted army. Their only reaction was to say sadly, as if I'd killed their pet: "But the bases are all wrong..."

3 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

But the approach of rules above other elements got me to give up on Warmachine.

That's absolutely the wrong thing for anyone to have done if they had two brain cells and were intentionally trying to get you involved in the game, and it's a shame it happened to you.

But if the game had gone differently, and you felt welcomed, I hope you agree it would've been appropriate for them to tell you your bases were the wrong style according to the rules and that it would matter if you wanted to play competitively.

That's the only thing that's been said in this thread, to a person who is already collecting and playing Legion.