On the bright side, the T47 pilot doesn't have to worry much about the forthcoming wookiees or imperial guards. Sure, they have a lot of other things to worry about, but not those guys.

I think the speeder is a much better unit than people realize. It has armor and is very agile. As a vehicle, it is somewhat unique in that it can shoot forward and backwards with a single action. Calling it “fragile” is an overstatement.

Yeah, you can argue it’s overcosted but I don’t think by much. And I think the biggest indicator that it’s actually alright is that almost any of the suggestions in here would make it immediately OP.

Personally, I would recommend everyone wait until the game matures a bit before even thinking about changing the speeder. When there’s lots of additional unit variety around the corner I think it’s utility - against things like the artillery for example, is still a big question.

What would I do?

Offensive surge to crit - Improves its underwhelming offense.

Red defense die - Improves its lackluster survivabilty.

I think AT-STs should also have offensive surge to crit.

12 minutes ago, Matt Antilles said:

What would I do?

Offensive surge to crit - Improves its underwhelming offense.

Red defense die - Improves its lackluster survivabilty.

I think AT-STs should also have offensive surge to crit.

This^

Been saying the same thing man. These changes would make both T47 and AT viable.

22 minutes ago, lukecook said:

This^

Been saying the same thing man. These changes would make both T47 and AT viable.

Hmm... the AT is pretty darn viable already.

I think additional upgrades would improve some of the shortcomings rather than errata. For instance, hypothetical upgrades:

"Flight Planning" A comms upgrade specific to repulsor vehicles only and exhausts, adding 2 red defense dice to your defense.

"Luke Skywalker" A pilot upgrade that adds surges to hit and defense of any vehicle he pilots, maybe a free dodge/aim token. Probably expensive.

I don't think the hardpoint would get messed with. Unless it's upgrading the harpoon/ground buzzer and it's costed a lot.

8 minutes ago, Orkimedes said:

Hmm... the AT is pretty darn viable already.

Yeah, it hits pretty hard already, the other day it destroyed all 6 minis of my Rebel Trooper unit in heavy cover with it's main gun plus the Grenade Launcher, without even aiming. I know that it was a lucky roll getting 7 hits from its 2 red, 4 black and 2 white dice and an unlucky defense on my part getting only 1 shield/surge on 7 dice, but if you add it an attack surge it would be OP in my opinion.

11 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Yeah, it hits pretty hard already, the other day it destroyed all 6 minis of my Rebel Trooper unit in heavy cover with it's main gun plus the Grenade Launcher, without even aiming. I know that it was a lucky roll getting 7 hits from its 2 red, 4 black and 2 white dice and an unlucky defense on my part getting only 1 shield/surge on 7 dice, but if you add it an attack surge it would be OP in my opinion.

It is also pretty uncommon for it not to have an aim. Most players that run the scary version (Weiss/grenade launcher) reliably feed it aim tokens with Veers. It is not uncommon or difficult for an AT-ST to be firing with one or even two aim tokens.

I’ve never found success with the AT-ST. For the same price you can get 3 bikes, much more maneuverable, more damage output, and survives longer. Current meta destroys ATs

Not to get super off topic but why didn’t they include an Attrition scenario. This would play into the hands of Vader and AT lists where 30% of army is in 1 unit. Better have something to kill them, can’t just ignore them like you can in most all other scenarios.

But those 3 bikes have to be activated with three tokens where you can activate your AT-ST all at once. Not saying that is good or bad, just something to consider. Some people like sinking points into a big scary unit. Also, this isn't x-wing. Legion is highly dependent on the board you are playing on and the strategy you use. X-wing seems to be extremely susceptible to meta gaming due to the fact that you are playing a flat surface every single time. So in legion, as long as things are balanced pointswise you cant really declare a particular list to be better than another list. A list can be "easier" to run but not straight up better.

Often times having more activation's is better. Board is something to consider, but if done with the 25% it feels same but also different board to board. Problem may not lay with the At-St itself, although I do feel the offensive surge is needed and certainly not going to make it OP. You're spending 220-260 points on the thing, it should be a beast! The problem may be that all the objectives heavily favor trooper swarms. Atst has to kill about 3-4 units of troopers for it to be worth it's high cost IMO?

It's funny. I'm an Imperial player for the most part but I have been playing Rebels a bit over the last 3 matches and I have taken the speeder in all of them. In all 3 it has performed well and done serious and game affecting damage. Maybe I've been lucky and had it work well for me but I like it. Perhaps it is a bit over-costed but it's a great flanking unit. Even in the last game it got focussed by a HH-12 and managed to come through decimating 2 units of troops (one, a unit of Snows, the other the HH-12 unit) and then taking a wound off of Vader. Compulsory Move + Aim + Shoot works well for me.

I don't go for the tournament scene but in a more casual setting I don't see a problem with it.

It needs an offensive surge, as well as a free dodge token.

Perhaps something like this,

Pilot Upgrade: Rogue Squadron Pilot: Rebel vehicle with Speeder 2 or greater only. 5 points. After you perform a compulsory move, gain either 1 dodge or aim token.

I guess the only thing I can say is that we are only a couple units in. They have time to imporve.

I do believe that with all the new toys coming out, most of which do not have Impact, the T47 will do better.

I've noticed that none of the Imps new toys carry Impact, which is great because in the early days everything in an Imperial list was packing it. Now there are other viable options for Imps, so the ubiquity of Impact is diminishing. Allows T47s a chance at living long enough to have an impact of their own.

Yeah I think early on when all we had were corps, support and heavy units it wasn't particularly balanced. Now we are adding operatives and special forces into the mix which adds complexity to list building and adds new combos to explore.

I wonder how adding the generator upgrades from the stationary weapons would effect the T47. Imagine adding 2 white Dice and suppressive from a barrage generator, or 1 extra black and an extra impact from the overcharge generator.

1 hour ago, Salcor said:

Imagine adding 2 white Dice

Or as I know them, Blank Dice.

On 9/9/2018 at 9:56 AM, Crawfskeezen said:

It's funny. I'm an Imperial player for the most part but I have been playing Rebels a bit over the last 3 matches and I have taken the speeder in all of them. In all 3 it has performed well and done serious and game affecting damage. Maybe I've been lucky and had it work well for me but I like it. Perhaps it is a bit over-costed but it's a great flanking unit. Even in the last game it got focussed by a HH-12 and managed to come through decimating 2 units of troops (one, a unit of Snows, the other the HH-12 unit) and then taking a wound off of Vader. Compulsory Move + Aim + Shoot works well for me.

I don't go for the tournament scene but in a more casual setting I don't see a problem with it.

I used to play 2 speeders in every game I played and the above is about what I would see the T-47 do in a game. They are very fun to fly and I think they get better in a pair.

You are paying at least 175 points for 1 speeder and you are only killing approximately 150 points of stuff in the above example. Now that doesn't sound like a big difference and this game is about objectives so as long as those units you kill are key units then that sounds okay, but as rebels for approximately 175 points I can get 3 trooper squads. Considering my troopers defense isn't as good as storm troopers I need as many bodies on the table as possible to capture objectives and even more important is having enough activations so that I don't have to move forwards into fire that I can't do much about on those early turns.

I don't think the T-47 is bad in an overall sense and I don't think it is drastically over costed if at all. The problem is that for rebel troopers to do well you need a high activation count and lots of objective scoring bodies and if you are spending more than 175 points on a single unit you can't meet those two requirements. If you look at the "best" or most competitive rebel lists at the moment they seem to have two commanders and 6 trooper squads with heavy weapon upgrades with one or two other activations to really get that unit count high.

How about an instructional video? Lol.

14 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Or as I know them, Blank Dice.

So much truth. I love seeing the praises of Z6 troops, but when I roll, I suspect just the extra black die of a standard trooper may actually create more damage.

I've actually yet to remove my T-47 from the box. I can't ever come up with an idea for it, and every source for advice has yet to inspire me to pull it out either.

I find the airspeeder makes me evaluate my position - it leaves me feeling vulnerable forcing me to redeploy away from objectives.

It’s the mobility of the thing which is irritating although DLTs and saber throw do bring it down. Problem with this though is it holds me up from capturing objectives and attacking other targets.

1 hour ago, Stasy said:

So much truth. I love seeing the praises of Z6 troops, but when I roll, I suspect just the extra black die of a standard trooper may actually create more damage.

I've actually yet to remove my T-47 from the box. I can't ever come up with an idea for it, and every source for advice has yet to inspire me to pull it out either.

6 white dice with no surge average 1.5 damage. 1 black die averages .5 damage. Numbers don't lie.

47 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

6 white dice with no surge average 1.5 damage. 1 black die averages .5 damage. Numbers don't lie.

My dice must be defective then. ?

Trying to stick to the cover 1 aspect of the air speeder with this upgrade card. Seems like removing the hits before they can be impacted with cover 1 and a dodge token (2 if you dodge during your turn with this upgrade) is a nice idea, while also making it more vulnerable before it activates.

Maybe I'd make this worth 5 points instead as the air speeder is already quite point hefty.