I like the combination of Biggs and Corran flying together, the former helping our E-Wing friend to the late game where he really shines.

But I'm having a hard time finding something to fill the remaining points that will allow this team to compete with the more competitive lists around (TIE fighter/bomber swarms, sup ref Vader, grand inquisitor Whisper, etc...)

A few things I'm considering...

1)

Corran: Elusive, FCS, R4 Astro (82)

Biggs: S-Foils (48)

Arvel: Intimidation (39)

AP-5 (30)

(199)

2)

Corran: Elusive, FCS, R4 Astro (82)

Biggs: S-Foils (48)

Knave Squadron E-Wing: Proton Torps (70)

(200)

3)

Corran: Elusive, FCS, R4 Astro, Proton Torp (91)

Biggs: S-Foils, Proton Torps, R2 Astro (63)

Airen Cracken: Swarm Tactics (everyone shoots at I5 then), Concussion Missiles (45)

(200)

4)

Corran: Elusive, FCS, R4 Astro (82)

Biggs: S-Foils, R2 Astro (54)

Jan Ors (HWK): Selfless, Moldy Crow, Proton Bombs

(198)

I honestly have no idea which is best...

Moldy is a beast of a ship that has no need to fly in formation

Jan, moldy, nien, + EU

Biggs with r5

Elusive corran with fcs, r3

Imo

Looks solid, you think it with compete with the 5 bomber rocket swarm? Or howl/Iden swarm?

4th one looks best to me.

Would probably suggest the same as Fickle, though. Nien is really good on Jan and the bombs feel pretty pointless. Stress shuts down Jan's ability, so it's the last thing you want to take. White boosts will help her keep up with Corran, so yeah I think EU is the way to go as well.

Only question I have is why R4 with Elusive? If you're running Elusive, you kinda almost want those red hard 1s so that you can use them to recharge Elusive. I've heard good things about R4 on E-Wings, precisely because those 1 hard reds can be a problem. But if you're taking R4 for that reason, Elusive no longer seems like such a good fit.

Again, as Fickle say, R3 works great with E-Wings. Lock two targets first round, and you can just save the second until you've dealt with the first ship. Also jives slightly better with Elusive, IMO.

Just something else to consider, for the points on Jan you could also take Proton Torps Wedge (with R3 if you're not bothered by a bid) or R2 and Crack Shot for more regen annoyance alongside Biggs and a one off super potent primary, as well as running a decent bid.

Not sure if it's any better, the HWK does offer a number of different things to the list. Is bumping one shot up a dice better than another 3 dice primary shot that reduces their agility? Situational, I guess, and I can't help but suggest Wedge in basically every single Rebel list (I love how cheap he is!!!)

8 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

Looks solid, you think it with compete with the 5 bomber rocket swarm? Or howl/Iden swarm?

My worry with both of those would be that Corran's double tap comes too late.

In both cases you need to remove at least one, preferably two in the case of the Howlswarm, from the board before they get to return fire. If you're willing to fly dangerously, I guess you could get Corran head on to get his bullseye lined up with two targets. You focus down the first one to kill it, and then although it's getting to shoot you still get to put some bonus damage down on a second ship to set up next turn.

Maybe you could kill the first with just boosted Corran and Jan? And then kill the second with Biggs and the double tap? Idk. It either takes really risking flying or an incredibly good flank to get the double tap on a second target.

In the end, I think it's unlikely you could leverage Corran's ability in such a way that you kill the two major swarm lists before they kill you with numbers.

Great feedback, I love the responses guys. My play group is loving the bomber spam and I really like the 100 or Corran/Luke style lists so I'm searching for something that will be able to compete, the Airen list isn't bad at all, tried it with Juke and R2 Astro on Corran and it felt pretty solid, ps killed Jonus which is always nice

9 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

Looks solid, you think it with compete with the 5 bomber rocket swarm? Or howl/Iden swarm?

nope!

you gotta be REALLY on the ball with your boosts + obstacle usage to stand a chance there

but that's true for literally everything that isn't a Barrage or TIE swarm (while a giant alpha can hurt a barrage swarm, it'll barely scratch TIEs with their numbers + Iden)


without boost, imo, you stand far less to basically no chance. Good thing everyone can boost!

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

nope!

you gotta be REALLY on the ball with your boosts + obstacle usage to stand a chance there

but that's true for literally everything that isn't a Barrage or TIE swarm


without boost, imo, you stand far less to basically no chance. Good thing everyone can boost!

Are there any rebel lists that stand up to TIE/bomber swarm?

Imo... nope! Unless you're really good at piloting around obstacles (the bane of formation flying) you're kinda ******

I'd theorize that a higher I strong Alpha (esp proton torps) should be a giant headache, but I doubt they'd match up v TIEs. Still, here ya go:

New Squadron

(62) Luke Skywalker
(9) Proton Torpedoes
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points 71

(30) AP-5
Points 30

(52) Wedge Antilles
(9) Proton Torpedoes

(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points 61

(38) Sabine Wren
Points 38

Total points: 200

Ap-5 basically there exclusively to get Wedge to focus (wedge needs his action to TL)

Sabine's just incredibly solid and seems really cheap for what she can do (esp with premanuever roll --> linked evade)

8 minutes ago, knute said:

Are there any rebel lists that stand up to TIE/bomber swarm?

The problem Rebels have is that they don't really have a way of competing with the TIE swarm's balance of Initiative and cost.

Six ships that are almost all at I5 or I4 is so hard to work around. In theory a list of fewer, but higher Init ships with the right abilities and weapons could do it, but the Rebs just don't have access to enough yet.

Maybe if Tycho reappears as an I5 in the A-Wing, you could work something reasonable with him and Jake using Clusters or Concussion Missiles for a relatively cheap fraction of the list, for example. In theory, them plus Bistan Han could be okay - but I think with the cost of Rebel crew at the moment, it just isn't possible to fit all that in.

Y-Wings as cheap ordnance carriers don't work, because they just don't have high enough Init. You can fit Horton, Dutch, Norra and a Gold Vet in a list, all with proton torpedoes. But three of those pilots are only equalling Howl and the Infernos and the Gold is just flat lower. If you want the bid to shoot first, then that's all you're running them with and Dutch can't do enough to make everyone work. And while you need to shoot first to get something off the board before the swarm hits, shooting first at the same Init means you're also moving first, so getting those target locks is difficult. Horton and Norra's abilities look like synergy, but clash because their Inits are the wrong way round.

It just doesn't work.

Same story with Bistan Han. He's got the Init, he's got two shots but there's nothing you can fill the rest of the list with that gets to shoot first and has enough numbers. Missile Zs or A-Wings, Dash and wingman, named XXYY... all either too low Init or too few ships.

You can't even fit 4 Torp Red Squad vets in a list, and if you could their Init would still be too low. You can fit Luke, Thane and Wedge in a list but even running them naked, the only other thing you can fit in would be something like Sabine, a Homing/Ion Green Squadron, naked Arvel or Concussion Blount. In other words, nothing above I4. The X-Wing as basic platform is much improved, but even with the three best pilots you're going to struggle to put hurt on six 3 agility ships without some upgrades for passive mods or extra dice.

I just can't find a way to make a decent four ship list (because I think that's the number you need to contend with the 6 ship swarm) that shoots before the bulk of the swarm.

The best counter I can think of is to forget trying to shoot first and trying to jam things up with HP and bombs instead. 2x Warden K-Wings with Barrage and Seismics, 2x Warden K-Wings with Barrage and Protons. Just hope for a bit of dice luck that 5 2/3 dice attacks with focus and re-rolls don't kill one in the first round, then shoot Wampa first, hope you kill him so that all four can at least get a bomb off before the damaged K gets taken out next round.

Taking Corran/Jan/Biggs, does it hold up vs everything aside from Howl/Iden or Jonus/Bomber swarms?

I can see bombers getting a price increase so that may be the thing that helps.

2 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

The problem Rebels have is that they don't really have a way of competing with the TIE swarm's balance of Initiative and cost.

Six ships that are almost all at I5 or I4 is so hard to work around. In theory a list of fewer, but higher Init ships with the right abilities and weapons could do it, but the Rebs just don't have access to enough yet.

Maybe if Tycho reappears as an I5 in the A-Wing, you could work something reasonable with him and Jake using Clusters or Concussion Missiles for a relatively cheap fraction of the list, for example. In theory, them plus Bistan Han could be okay - but I think with the cost of Rebel crew at the moment, it just isn't possible to fit all that in.

Y-Wings as cheap ordnance carriers don't work, because they just don't have high enough Init. You can fit Horton, Dutch, Norra and a Gold Vet in a list, all with proton torpedoes. But three of those pilots are only equalling Howl and the Infernos and the Gold is just flat lower. If you want the bid to shoot first, then that's all you're running them with and Dutch can't do enough to make everyone work. And while you need to shoot first to get something off the board before the swarm hits, shooting first at the same Init means you're also moving first, so getting those target locks is difficult. Horton and Norra's abilities look like synergy, but clash because their Inits are the wrong way round.

It just doesn't work.

Same story with Bistan Han. He's got the Init, he's got two shots but there's nothing you can fill the rest of the list with that gets to shoot first and has enough numbers. Missile Zs or A-Wings, Dash and wingman, named XXYY... all either too low Init or too few ships.

You can't even fit 4 Torp Red Squad vets in a list, and if you could their Init would still be too low. You can fit Luke, Thane and Wedge in a list but even running them naked, the only other thing you can fit in would be something like Sabine, a Homing/Ion Green Squadron, naked Arvel or Concussion Blount. In other words, nothing above I4. The X-Wing as basic platform is much improved, but even with the three best pilots you're going to struggle to put hurt on six 3 agility ships without some upgrades for passive mods or extra dice.

I just can't find a way to make a decent four ship list (because I think that's the number you need to contend with the 6 ship swarm) that shoots before the bulk of the swarm.

The best counter I can think of is to forget trying to shoot first and trying to jam things up with HP and bombs instead. 2x Warden K-Wings with Barrage and Seismics, 2x Warden K-Wings with Barrage and Protons. Just hope for a bit of dice luck that 5 2/3 dice attacks with focus and re-rolls don't kill one in the first round, then shoot Wampa first, hope you kill him so that all four can at least get a bomb off before the damaged K gets taken out next round.

This perhaps?

Jake: Selfless, Concussion Missiles

Wedge: Proton Torps, S-Foils, Swarm Tactics

Luke: Heightened Per, Proton Torps, S-Foils, R2 Astro, Stealth Device

Shoots at 667 and will almost always be able to ps kill something 5 or less, especially ships that have few shields as this list rains crits. Luke is a huge late game threat and I think can take 2 bombers alone, still doesn't help vs Howl/Iden nonsense but seems like a better version of the Corran list above (with Airen and Biggs).

7 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:

Shoots at 667 and will almost always be able to ps kill something 5 or less, especially ships that have few shields as this list rains crits. Luke is a huge late game threat and I think can take 2 bombers alone, still doesn't help vs Howl/Iden nonsense but seems like a better version of the Corran list above (with Airen and Biggs).

If it's not going to beat Howlferno, the initiative is way less important.

That's really the list my post was about, that's the list that Rebs can't balance numbers against Init for.

I think I'd probably rather take Luke, Wedge and Thane with torps and very little else but a big bid than stack up on Luke and have to run Jake. You can sacrifice some of the bid to give Luke Heightened, Wedge Crack Shot and Thane Selfless.

Something along those lines probably comes closest to beating Howlferno too, for that matter. Howl is the only I5, so it's not absolutely vital that the whole list shoot before her, no one's going to die from her shot alone.

If you really aren't bothered about Howl swarm and are just looking at Bombers, I'd definitely lean more towards four ships if possible.

Luke and Thane with torps, Arvel with Initimidation and Green Squadron pilot with Concussion Missiles is 200 points. GSP isn't great, but it should at least be able to lock a Scimitar bomber.

I think Wedge and Thane with just target locks should be able to kill Jonus between them if Arvel bumps him. If not, it should be close enough that Arvel has a shot at finishing him, so the GSP is free to start working on a Scimitar in the opening round. If you're a gambler, that GSP can also shoot at a locked Scimitar even if Jonus is still around but with only one hull left. The Concussion splash damage might just flip one of his damage cards to a direct hit.

In terms of what we've looked at in this thread, I think I still like the Corran, Jan and Biggs list best.

56 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

If you really aren't bothered about Howl swarm and are just looking at Bombers, I'd definitely lean more towards four ships if possible. 

If you really want a bomber swarm, you do 4 scimitars with barrage rockets, and Jonus as the fifth. That way, you have 5, 3 dice shots with re-rolls and a focus. You can do that and still have points left over for devices, or something to make Jonus harder to kill.

I'm actually more excited about a barrage bomber swarm more than the howlferno. Yes, they are higher PS, but there are still ways around it.

5 hours ago, Biggsy_boy said:

If you really want a bomber swarm, you do 4 scimitars with barrage rockets, and Jonus as the fifth. That way, you have 5, 3 dice shots with re-rolls and a focus. You can do that and still have points left over for devices, or something to make Jonus harder to kill.

Yes. I know the exact list.

This whole thread is about Rebel lists that can counter them. That's the why the list I mentioned in the very next paragraph was two X-Wings and two A-Wings. Y'know, Rebel ships.

I'm saying that I'd strongly suggest taking four Rebel ships if you're expecting to go up against the Bomber swarm because I'm not convinced three gives you enough attacking power to wipe Jonus off the board before the Scims fire.

In general, I have a hard time justifying any list with less than four ships, only exceptions being scum running with a hefty Boba or Sabine

I don't think E quite stacks up to those guys ito staying power nor does it have access to the almighty wingman, Palob.

But what can ya do?

Corran / Biggs / Jan comes the closest to my 3 ship scums of Boba or Sabine / Serissu / Palob, so it's the one I personally believe has the best chance at succeeding. It's just personally REALLY difficult to justify an E over Luke

Pretty sure you gotta fly differently either way, though. Biggs is sweet and all, but he isn't enough to just drive you straight through a bomb swarm

Now Sabine? Oh man...