9 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

but this was an extreme example by the definition of subspecies what is commonly refereed to as race is in fact human subspecies

Now I'm not sure if you're Stormbourne, or Stormfront. ?

Just now, HappyDaze said:

Now I'm not sure if you're Stormbourne, or Stormfront. ?

?????

2 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

?????

Referring to human races as human sub-species is a common move made by racist groups and is considered improper, both scientifically and socially.

Just now, HappyDaze said:

Referring to human races as human sub-species is a common move made by racist groups and is considered improper, both scientifically and socially.

ah ha didn't know that but no i'm not a white supremacist

38 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

ah ha didn't know that but no i'm not a white supremacist

Might want to avoid rhetoric that is close to theirs in the future then.

A better and more researched example to what you're talking about is the high altitude adaptation of people living in the Himalayas, the Andes and the Ethiopian highlands. They live in environments where the rest of us would fall sick and even possibly die. They don't really have any external changes though, so it's not really what you're talking about. It does show that change can happen pretty quickly though since it's believed that Tibetans have only lived in their current high altitude areas for around 3000 years.

The old Nightsister lore is pretty daft though. Having a population that is split between the male and female members where the females live on one side planet and the males live on the other, where they don't really interact unless a witch is feeling frisky and they need some new babies. It's made even weirder since the females are normalish humans while the males look like technicolour Zabraks. It gets even more confusing when you check on the population of the planet and the different accounts on how long it's been settled by Zabraks or used for other stuff. The place is just weirdness central.

The few Nightsisters featured in Ghosts of Dathomir don't have any special traits, so use the human baseline for them (or mod one like the Corellian human or Mandalorian human and give them a free rank in discipline, since that's the one used in alchemy) and then fluff them differently in the description. Nightbrothers are just normal Zabrak that have technicolour skin. The ones featured in Ghosts of Dathomir don't have force abilities, so they don't seem any more force sensitive than normal Zabrak (which is still better than the galactic average when it comes to force sensitivity). Hel, if we look at the Clone Wars series then most Nightsisters didn't seem to be force sensitive. There was Talzinn, who was their main Shaman, and then Ventress. As a sidenote both Maul, Savage and Feral were children of Talzinn, seems like she was a wonderful mother.

23 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

Hel, if we look at the Clone Wars series then most Nightsisters didn't seem to be force sensitive. There was Talzinn, who was their main Shaman, and then Ventress. As a sidenote both Maul, Savage and Feral were children of Talzinn, seems like she was a wonderful mother.

We have seen many nightsisters perform magicks though usually aiding mother talzin in her ritual. Notable examples are empowering savage, healing maul, and resurecting dead nightsisters

7 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

We have seen many nightsisters perform magicks though usually aiding mother talzin in her ritual. Notable examples are empowering savage, healing maul, and resurecting dead nightsisters

They're acting more like a battery in those situations, or possibly using alchemy. They're not summoning weapons, tossing around lightning or choking fools. When they go after Dooku they're not really using the force, Ventress is the only one doing so in that fight. So giving them a leg up on alchemy by giving them a free level of discipline is enough for the alchemy, at least if they start with a FaD spec that gives them a force rating from the start.

2 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

They're acting more like a battery in those situations, or possibly using alchemy. They're not summoning weapons, tossing around lightning or choking fools. When they go after Dooku they're not really using the force, Ventress is the only one doing so in that fight. So giving them a leg up on alchemy by giving them a free level of discipline is enough for the alchemy, at least if they start with a FaD spec that gives them a force rating from the start.

One of the nightsister rituals dictates that all members of the nightsister are force sensitive

20 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

One of the nightsister rituals dictates that all members of the nightsister are force sensitive

Which one? Because I can't seem to remember any from the Clone Wars series where they all had to be force sensitive.

45 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

They're acting more like a battery in those situations, or possibly using alchemy. They're not summoning weapons, tossing around lightning or choking fools. When they go after Dooku they're not really using the force, Ventress is the only one doing so in that fight. So giving them a leg up on alchemy by giving them a free level of discipline is enough for the alchemy, at least if they start with a FaD spec that gives them a force rating from the start.

That doesn't mean they are not using Enhance or (more likely) lesser tricks like the talents Uncanny Reactions, Uncanny Senses, or Sleight of Mind. I don't really have a problem with the idea that all Nightsisters (and even Nightbrothers) have a FR, but I do feel that most are untrained in utilizing it.

40 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

Which one? Because I can't seem to remember any from the Clone Wars series where they all had to be force sensitive.

Young women aspiring to join the ranks of the Nightsisters first had to use the Dark side to subdue a powerful, strong-willed creature living in the depths of the pools in the village known as the Sleeper, and bring back a part of its body. Any initiate who gave into their fear, such as Talia's twin sister, would be dragged down into the depths and killed.

5 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

Young women aspiring to join the ranks of the Nightsisters first had to use the Dark side to subdue a powerful, strong-willed creature living in the depths of the pools in the village known as the Sleeper, and bring back a part of its body. Any initiate who gave into their fear, such as Talia's twin sister, would be dragged down into the depths and killed.

That's from the books though, so a less accessible medium. The easier and more balanced option is to simply have anyone wanting to play a Nightsister pick a FaD career, that way they get access to the force. If they're NPC's then you could use the Ysanna rules for them. You can find those in Nexus of Power on the pages dealing with Ossus.

If they want to be from Dathomir but not be force sensitive then any force related traits aren't going to be much use to them, so they could just be a normal human or Zabrak who didn't measure up and was discarded.

12 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

That's from the books though, so a less accessible medium. The easier and more balanced option is to simply have anyone wanting to play a Nightsister pick a FaD career, that way they get access to the force. If they're NPC's then you could use the Ysanna rules for them. You can find those in Nexus of Power on the pages dealing with Ossus.

If they want to be from Dathomir but not be force sensitive then any force related traits aren't going to be much use to them, so they could just be a normal human or Zabrak who didn't measure up and was discarded.

can't find any Ysanna rules only ysana hunter

if they want to be from dathomir as a narrative instrument then all power to them

It should also be noted that the Nightsisters/Nightbrothers were only one tribe, specifically the Dark Side tribe, not the entire population of the planet. Not every Witch on Dathomir was a Dark Sider, nor part of the Nightsister tribe. There were other tribes, it was only the Nightsisters that were featured (and later wiped out) in Clone Wars , however.

7 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

It should also be noted that the Nightsisters/Nightbrothers were only one tribe, specifically the Dark Side tribe, not the entire population of the planet. Not every Witch on Dathomir was a Dark Sider, nor part of the Nightsister tribe. There were other tribes, it was only the Nightsisters that were featured (and later wiped out) in Clone Wars , however.

Seems like nearly all of them were wiped out if Ghosts of Dathomir is to be believed. 8000 people on the planet, majority of them being the Imperial Garrison, does imply most of them aren't among the living anymore.

25 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

Seems like nearly all of them were wiped out if Ghosts of Dathomir is to be believed. 8000 people on the planet, majority of them being the Imperial Garrison, does imply most of them aren't among the living anymore.

Take any population numbers in Star Wars with a full mine of salt.

18 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Take any population numbers in Star Wars with a full mine of salt.

well considering that the survivors of clone wars were told to start again off planet

9 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Take any population numbers in Star Wars with a full mine of salt.

Take pretty much all numbers with a mine full of salt.

15 hours ago, Darth Revenant said:

Seems like nearly all of them were wiped out if Ghosts of Dathomir is to be believed. 8000 people on the planet, majority of them being the Imperial Garrison, does imply most of them aren't among the living anymore.

All of the Nightsisters , yes. However, the Nightsisters and Nightbrothers were only one tribe among many different tribes of witches. They were the Dark Side tribe. So that does not mean any other tribe of witches were.

8 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

All of the Nightsisters , yes. However, the Nightsisters and Nightbrothers were only one tribe among many different tribes of witches. They were the Dark Side tribe. So that does not mean any other tribe of witches were.

i would say that the nightsisters are actually in the best situation of all dathomir tribes as the few survivors of the clone wars fled dathomir and hid through out the galaxy while all those on dathomir where hunted as the empire started culling force users

17 hours ago, Stormbourne said:

i would say that the nightsisters are actually in the best situation of all dathomir tribes as the few survivors of the clone wars fled dathomir and hid through out the galaxy while all those on dathomir where hunted as the empire started culling force users

Nope. The Nightsisters, in particular , were targeted for annihilation by Palpatine. And that was during the Clone Wars, no less.

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Nope. The Nightsisters, in particular , were targeted for annihilation by Palpatine. And that was during the Clone Wars, no less.

yes but some survived including talzin herself who as i understand it ordered the nightsisters to hide and survive all before order 66 and the culling of all force wielding groups, so those left on the planet wouldn't have time to prepare for when inquisitors showed up while the nightsisters did

am i saying the survivors have enough members to keep the order of nightsisters active, it's unlikely to near impossible but they would have survived maybe in greater numbers then the other clans. that's what im saying

11 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

yes but some survived including talzin herself who as i understand it ordered the nightsisters to hide and survive all before order 66 and the culling of all force wielding groups, so those left on the planet wouldn't have time to prepare for when inquisitors showed up while the nightsisters did

am i saying the survivors have enough members to keep the order of nightsisters active, it's unlikely to near impossible but they would have survived maybe in greater numbers then the other clans. that's what im saying

According to Star Wars Rebels, all of the Nightsisters were wiped out. Talzin was the last survivor, and Maul was the last surviving Nightbrother. That doesn't mean any of the other tribes of witches were killed. but the Nightsister tribe was wiped out.

36 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

According to Star Wars Rebels, all of the Nightsisters were wiped out. Talzin was the last survivor, and Maul was the last surviving Nightbrother. That doesn't mean any of the other tribes of witches were killed. but the Nightsister tribe was wiped out.

...as long as we ignore Shelish.

And if she was off world during the attack, it opens the door for others to have likewise been off world.

1 minute ago, Nytwyng said:

...as long as we ignore Shelish.

And if she was off world during the attack, it opens the door for others to have likewise been off world.

Not familiar with that character.