Luke has Second Chance and 1 point of health remaining. He gets shot and takes 3 damage. Does he die? Or does he stay on the board with 2 health left?
Second Chance
A figure cannot suffer 3 damage if he has suffered damage equal to his Health minus 1. Any excess damage is ignored and the figure only suffers 1 damage.
Then the figure has suffered damage equal to his Health, thus would be defeated, but Second Chance triggers before defeat to recover 2 damage, and makes the defeat invalid.
19 hours ago, a1bert said:A figure cannot suffer 3 damage if he has suffered damage equal to his Health minus 1. Any excess damage is ignored and the figure only suffers 1 damage.
Then the figure has suffered damage equal to his Health, thus would be defeated, but Second Chance triggers before defeat to recover 2 damage, and makes the defeat invalid.
What would happen if he suffers 3 strain and has no cards to discard? He suffers 1 damage, 2 strain are lost and then recover 2 damage?
And what if he had cards to discard?
Edited by viktr"When a figure suffers C , it suffers an equal amount of H (damage) instead. The player controlling the figure can prevent any of this H by discarding one Command card from the top of his deck for each C that he wishes to prevent."
Suffering 3 strain means suffering 3 damage. A figure cannot suffer damage over his Health, so only 1 damage is suffered.
If the player does discard 3 cards from the deck, no damage is suffered, otherwise 1.
There are no deliberate "overkills" since the damage do not carry over
Easy way to think: once a figure has suffered damage equal to its health, it discards all damage and it dies
"Second Chance" basically says no you're not dead yet, here's 2 more health
Luke has Second Chance and is defeated. Now he wants to play Dying Lunge. How does that work?
I'd think, when Luke is defeated, Second Chance automatically and immediately is in effect. Luke gains 2 Health and so is not defeated. Therefore, Dying Lunge cannot be used.
I heard the argument, that the attacker can choose, which of his cards to play first. He wants to play DL first and the Second Chance last, to be able to use both.
3 minutes ago, DerBaer said:Luke has Second Chance and is defeated. Now he wants to play Dying Lunge. How does that work?
I'd think, when Luke is defeated, Second Chance automatically and immediately is in effect. Luke gains 2 Health and so is not defeated. Therefore, Dying Lunge cannot be used.
I heard the argument, that the attacker can choose, which of his cards to play first. He wants to play DL first and the Second Chance last, to be able to use both.
If you use Dying Lunge, you get defeated even if second chance pops up.
The thing is, Second Chance doesn't "pop up". The card is either in play before the attack starts or not at all.
8 minutes ago, DerBaer said:Luke has Second Chance and is defeated. Now he wants to play Dying Lunge. How does that work?
I'd think, when Luke is defeated, Second Chance automatically and immediately is in effect. Luke gains 2 Health and so is not defeated. Therefore, Dying Lunge cannot be used.
I heard the argument, that the attacker can choose, which of his cards to play first. He wants to play DL first and the Second Chance last, to be able to use both.
The moment Luke has damage equal to his health you have the chance to play Dying Lunge and resolve either effect first, as they both trigger at the same time. This creates two options with the same outcome:
1- If you resolve Second Chance first, Luke survives the damage and is alive, but then Dying Lunge causes him to be defeated, regardless of his health (due to "Then, you are defeated").
2- If you resolve Dying Lunge first, Luke is defeated after the attack before having the opportunity to benefit from Second Chance.
11 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:If you use Dying Lunge, you get defeated even if second chance pops up.
And Second Chance says "instead of being defeated", so why should Second Chance not be able to trigger on the "you are defeated" effect of Dying Lunge.
1 minute ago, DerBaer said:And Second Chance says "instead of being defeated", so why should Second Chance not be able to trigger on the "you are defeat ed" effect of Dying Lunge.
Because Dying Lunge causes Luke to be defeated no matter the amount of health he has left.
Edited by viktr2 minutes ago, viktr said:2- If you resolve Dying Lunge first, Luke is defeated after the attack before having the opportunity to benefit from Second Chance.
Again, Second Chance says "instead of being defeated", so why should Second Chance not be able to trigger on the "you are defeated" effect of Dying Lunge.
Edited by DerBaer
1 minute ago, DerBaer said:And Second Chance says "instead of being defeated", so why should Second Chance not be able to trigger on the "you are defeated" effect of Dying Lunge.
I don't see any Instead.
12 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:If you use Dying Lunge, you get defeated even if second chance pops up.
Why?
Just by the wording this should work together.
It is just a loop in another loop.
For example :
Play second Chance on Luke, if he suffers damage equal to his health, you Play dying lung.
You move 2 spaces and attack.
Then you would be defeated aggain, but you choose to trigger second chance.
Yes. That would be a great synergie.
Why should this not work?
Pardon. Let me correct myself:
Second Chance says "before you would be defeated", so why should Second Chance not be able to trigger on the "you are defeated" effect of Dying Lunge.
1 minute ago, DerBaer said:Pardon. Let me correct myself:
Second Chance says "before you would be defeated", so why should Second Chance not be able to trigger on t he "you are defeated" effect of Dying Lunge.
This:
5 minutes ago, viktr said:Because Dying Lunge causes Luke to be defeated no matter the amount of health he has left.
But I think, what we are arguing about is not even the point.:
I think, when Luke is defeated, Second Chance automatically and immediately is in effect. Luke gains 2 Health and so is not defeated. Therefore, Dying Lunge cannot be used here, because the trigger "defeated doesn't even take place.
8 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:
I don't see any Instead.
Yes you are right.
But then second chance will work another way i think it does.
By the wording right now, it is, even if you recover HP trough second chance you will be defeated after any attack that will kill you.
Maybe there is a missing sentence.
.... and discard this card.
You are not longer defeated.
When an ability such as Parting Shot or Self-Destruct or Dying Lunge says "You are defeated", the amount of damage you have suffered is irrelevant.
(Edit: also a valid point about Second Chance making Dying Lunge's trigger invalid.)
Edited by a1bert
On 9/5/2018 at 10:22 AM, DerBaer said:Luke has Second Chance and 1 point of health remaining. He gets shot and takes 3 damage. Does he die? Or does he stay on the board with 2 health left?
On 9/5/2018 at 11:37 AM, a1bert said:A figure cannot suffer 3 damage if he has suffered damage equal to his Health minus 1. Any excess damage is ignored and the figure only suffers 1 damage.
Then the figure has suffered damage equal to his Health, thus would be defeated, but Second Chance triggers before defeat to recover 2 damage, and makes the defeat invalid.
Edited by DerBaer
6 minutes ago, a1bert said:When an ability such as Parting Shot or Self-Destruct or Dying Lunge says "You are defeated", the amount of damage you have suffered is irrelevant.
Absolutly truth.
But in this case, second chance will not gona rescue you from beeing shoot.
So if Luke takes damage equal to his health.
But has second chance on his deployment card.
He is marked as defeated.
He trigger second chance, and regain some HP. But he will be defeated after this. And will be gone from the board.
I Dont think second chance will work this way.
I think that SC will do another Job and that there ismissing.
Instead of beeing defeated.
Or you are not longer counted as beeing defeated.
So that the Figur will stay on the board.
3 minutes ago, a1bert said:When an ability such as Parting Shot or Self-Destruct or Dying Lunge says "You are defeated", the amount of damage you have suffered is irrelevant.
Understood. But this still is not my question.
9 minutes ago, DerBaer said:But I think, what we are arguing about is not even the point.:
I think, when Luke is defeated, Second Chance automatically and immediately is in effect. Luke gains 2 Health and so is not defeated. Therefore, Dying Lunge cannot be used here, because the trigger "defeated" doesn't even take place.
Is Luke allowed to play Dying Lunge at all, if Second Chance is in effect on him?
(My opinion: There is no "may", i.e. no choice, in Second Chance. Luke is just not defeated in the first place, so the trigger for Dying Lunge is not there.)
You could of course decide to resolve Dying Lunge first. You would still trigger Second Chance from "be defeated" of Dying Lunge, but it would just make the defeat from having suffered damage equal to Health invalid, and doesn't prevent the straight-out "You're defeated".
1.Suffer damage equal to Health -> trigger for Dying Lunge and being defeated A (core rule), Dying Lunge specifies it happens before A.
2a) Choose to play Dying Lunge (a cost), resolve it, "Then, you're defeated" B.
3a) Second Chance see you're defeated, you recover 2 damage. It makes A invalid, because you have no longer suffered damage equal to Health, but it doesn't make B invalid.
4a) Removed from the map.
2b) Do not play Dying Lunge. Now A happens, and triggers Second Chance.
3b) Second Chance recovers 2 damage, makes A invalid. You cannot play Dying Lunge.
Do we agree, did I make some mistake?
1 minute ago, a1bert said:You could of course decide to resolve Dying Lunge first. You would still trigger Second Chance from "be defeated" of Dying Lunge, but it would just make the defeat from having suffered damage equal to Health invalid, and doesn't prevent the straight-out "You're defeated".
1.Suffer damage equal to Health -> trigger for Dying Lunge and being defeated A (core rule), Dying Lunge specifies it happens before A.
2a) Choose to play Dying Lunge (a cost), resolve it, "Then, you're defeated" B.
3a) Second Chance see you're defeated, you recover 2 damage. It makes A invalid, because you have no longer suffered damage equal to Health, but it doesn't make B invalid.
4a) Removed from the map.2b) Do not play Dying Lunge. Now A happens, and triggers Second Chance.
3b) Second Chance recovers 2 damage, makes A invalid. You cannot play Dying Lunge.Do we agree, did I make some mistake?
Actually, Second Chance states "before you
would be
defeated", while Dying Lunge states "before you
are
defeated".
I guess you can't even decide nor play Dying Lunge before Second Chance because from timing sentence Second Chance pops first.
2 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:I guess you can't even decide nor play Dying Lunge before Second Chance because from timing sentence Second Chance pops first.
That's my point.
Edited by DerBaer