10 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

Actually, Second Chance states "before you would be defeated", while Dying Lunge states "before you are defeated".
I guess you can't even decide nor play Dying Lunge before Second Chance because from timing sentence Second Chance pops first.

Dying Lunge trigger is "When you have suffered damage equal to your Health". "Before you are defeated" is a timing clarification, not a trigger condition.

1 minute ago, viktr said:

Dying Lunge trigger is "When you have suffered damage equal to your Health". "Before you are defeated" is a timing clarification, not a trigger condition.

Not really, it's a timing clarification for the trigger condition.

14 minutes ago, a1bert said:

You could of course decide to resolve Dying Lunge first. You would still trigger Second Chance from "be defeated" of Dying Lunge, but it would just make the defeat from having suffered damage equal to Health invalid, and doesn't prevent the straight-out "You're defeated".

1.Suffer damage equal to Health -> trigger for Dying Lunge and being defeated A (core rule), Dying Lunge specifies it happens before A.
2a) Choose to play Dying Lunge (a cost), resolve it, "Then, you're defeated" B.
3a) Second Chance see you're defeated, you recover 2 damage. It makes A invalid, because you have no longer suffered damage equal to Health, but it doesn't make B invalid.
4a) Removed from the map.

2b) Do not play Dying Lunge. Now A happens, and triggers Second Chance.
3b) Second Chance recovers 2 damage, makes A invalid. You cannot play Dying Lunge.

Do we agree, did I make some mistake?

I think you are right.

And that it will be ruled this way.

But I still hope for a official ruling by ffg.

Because in this case SC will also not work with the parting shoot by greedo.

But maybe that is a good think. ?

3 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

Not really, it's a timing clarification for the trigger condition.

That's exactly what I said:

5 minutes ago, viktr said:

Dying Lunge trigger is "When you have suffered damage equal to your Health". "Before you are defeated" is a timing clarification, not a trigger condition .

I asked Todd long ago about Miracle Worker and Greedo and it works the way I said before. You can use Dying Lunge, decide the order of resolution, and the outcome is the same: you die anyway because of the "Then, you are defeated".

Usually, in a given timing window, you have the choice, which card to play first, or which reroll to use first (if you have more than one). But all these effects indicate that choice (e.g. You "may" reroll.).

But with Second Chance, you make your choice at the start of the round (to play that card). There is no "may" in Second Chance. As the card is already in play, it is resolved before Dying Lunge can be played.

Even Parting Shot has a "may".

46 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

Actually, Second Chance states "before you would be defeated", while Dying Lunge states "before you are defeated".
I guess you can't even decide nor play Dying Lunge before Second Chance because from timing sentence Second Chance pops first.

Like said already, the trigger for Second Chance for resolving its effect is "before being defeated", while the trigger for Dying Lunge is "having suffered damage equal to Health". Because having suffered damage equal to Health is a trigger for a core rule of "becoming defeated", Dying Lunge (which is your ability) needs to override the timing conflict resolution order by including an explicit "before being defeated". Otherwise the core/mission rule of becoming defeated would always resolve first, and you are no longer on the map and Dying Lunge would no nothing.

28 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

Usually, in a given timing window, you have the choice, which card to play first, or which reroll to use first (if you have more than one). But all these effects indicate that choice (e.g. You "may" reroll.).

But with Second Chance, you make your choice at the start of the round (to play that card). There is no "may" in Second Chance. As the card is already in play, it is resolved before Dying Lunge can be played.

The moment Luke has suffered damage equal to his health you can play Dying Lunge, that's the trigger, and after that you decide the order of resolution of Second Chance and Dying Lunge, but both get resolved.

OK.

24 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

But with Second Chance, you make your choice at the start of the round (to play that card). There is no "may" in Second Chance. As the card is already in play, it is resolved before Dying Lunge can be played.

Both are your abilities, so you can decide their order of resolution.

Playing a card is just a cost required to resolve the ability when its trigger happens.

So, just to be sure, will second chance work on greedo, i.e. prevents him from dying?

19 minutes ago, lig1994 said:

So, just to be sure, will second chance work on greedo, i.e. prevents him from dying?

What's the situation?

When Greedo has suffered damage equal to his Health, both defeat and Parting Shot trigger, Parting Shot happens first. From Parting Shot Greedo may perform an attack, then be defeated. Second Chance recovers 2 damage, and makes the defeat from suffering damage invalid, but Greedo is still defeated from "Then, you are defeated." of Parting Shot, because it happens regardless of the damage Greedo has suffered.

(Parting Shot and Dying Lunge are the same except for the move 2 spaces and different attack type.)

nope, I mean if someone chooses to trigger second chance first, is it parting invalidated, no trigger anymore, therefore no shot and no death?

8 hours ago, lig1994 said:

nope, I mean if someone chooses to trigger second chance first, is it parting invalidated, no trigger anymore, therefore no shot and no death?

Parting Shot and Second Chance have different triggers, and thus Parting Shot always happens first, there is no choice.

(Parting Shot - when suffered damage equal to Health, Second Chance - when would be defeated.)

1 hour ago, a1bert said:

Parting Shot and Second Chance have different triggers, and thus Parting Shot always ha  ppens first, there is no choice.

(Parting Shot - when suffered damage equal to Health, Second Chance - when would be defeated.)

Just want to add that, even in the hypothesis that both have the same trigger ("when you've suffered damage equal to your health") you'd have the option to resolve either effect first, but the outcome would be the same. This is what happens with Miracle Worker (MHD Command Card).

Todd said about that interaction:

Quote

• If you resolve Miracle Worker first, Greedo survives the damage and is alive at 2 health, but then Parting Shot triggers and causes him to be defeated, regardless of his health.
• If you resolve Parting Shot first, Greedo shoots and becomes defeated before having the opportunity to play Miracle Worker.

The outcome is always that Greedo becomes defeated by his own Parting Shot ability.

Parting Shot always triggers if Greedo's suffered damage equal to his health, and he dies because of that.

16 hours ago, a1bert said:

(Parting Shot - when suffered damage equal to Health, Second Chance - when would be defeated.)

True... I haven't realised that "defeated" isn't exactly same as "suffered damage equal to health". This is a very good point!