Quick question: If a ship with Ciena Ree coordinates an interceptor, and that interceptor uses Autothrusters to add a red boost/roll, does that count as "performed a boost/roll" for Ciena Ree?

The obvious answer is of course no, as you did not coordinate a boost/roll. What do you think?

Cardtext:

Ciena Ree: After you perform a [coordinate] action, if the ship you coordinated performed a [barrel roll] or [boost] action, it may gain 1 stress token to rotate 90˚.

Interceptor: AUTOTHRUSTERS: After you perform an action. you may perform a red [barrel roll] or a red [boost] action.

Obvious answer is correct.

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Obvious answer is correct.

Indeed. The ship is only "being co-ordinated" whilst perfoming the free action it gets from the co-ordinate. What it might be able to chain off that action it as a linked or free action afterwards is irrelevant.

Edit.....actually. Hmm. Now doubting myself

Quote

A coordinating ship is a ship that is attempting to coordinate by performing the following steps:
1. Measure range from the coordinating ship to any friendly ships.
2. Choose another friendly ship at range 1–2.
3. The chosen ship performs one action.

.So Ciena Ree triggers 'after the chosen ship performs one action' which is the same trigger as autothrusters.

Quote

If a player has multiple abilities that triggered from the same event, that player chooses the order that those abilities are added to the ability queue.

So theoretically I can choose to put autothrusters in the ability queue before ciena ree. Which means that by the time we get to her, the ship she chose to co-ordinate has performed a boost or barrel roll; her ability doesn't require that it do so as its first action, or that it can't perform other actions, or that it be unstressed

The ship will be double stressed as a result, which is bad juju for a TIE interceptor, but theoretically, yes, I think you could argue you can focus, boost and then rotate 90'

10 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

So theoretically I can choose to put autothrusters in the ability queue before ciena ree. Which means that by the time we get to her, the ship she chose to co-ordinate has performed a boost or barrel roll; her ability doesn't require that it do so as its first action, or that it can't perform other actions, or that it be unstressed

exactly!

Not really worth it, but is it possible? Obviously you'd choose a blue maneuver, so end up stressed, but maybe a K-turn with a focus and optional lateral movement is better than just a K-turn without a focus. Or to focus for Soontir.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

exactly!

Not really worth it, but is it possible? Obviously you'd choose a blue maneuver, so end up stressed, but maybe a K-turn with a focus and optional lateral movement is better than just a K-turn without a focus. Or to focus for Soontir.

If you really wanted to prove a point, Barrel Roll Action /Autothrusters/Boost Action/Ciena Ree/Speed 2 Blue Turn.

Turn/roll the same way each time and the overall net effect is a speed 1 'sideslip' and 135' turn to put your arc of fire covering range 1 behind your starting position.

"Wait....wasn't I behind you ?"

9 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Ciena Ree triggers 'after the chosen ship performs one action' which is the same trigger as autothrusters.

So theoretically I can choose to put autothrusters in the ability queue before ciena ree. Which means that by the time we get to her, the ship she chose to co-ordinate has performed a boost or barrel roll; her ability doesn't require that it do so as its first action, or that it can't perform other actions, or that it be unstressed

I see your logic there but I don't think that works. The trigger for Ciena is "after you perform a coordinate" AND "if the ship did a boost or barrel roll". You don't get to ignore the second part if you want to add her ability to the queue.

So the order is this:

1. Coordinate with the interceptor, they focus.

2. I'd like to trigger Autothrusters after that action and add it's ability to the queue. Okay fine.

3. I'd like to trigger Ciena and add her ability to the queue. Did the ship do a boost/BR? No. Then you can't, you haven't met the restrictions.

4. Alright I resolve Autothrusters. Now that I've barrel rolled I'd like to trigger Ciena. Still, can't the timing window has passed, too late to put her in the queue.

7 minutes ago, sharrrp said:

I see your logic there but I don't think that works. The trigger for Ciena is "after you perform a coordinate" AND "if the ship did a boost or barrel roll". You don't get to ignore the second part if you want to add her ability to the queue.

I agree that this is more likely. But to me it's just unclear enough to ask the question.

Your explanation of when actions are added to the queue makes sense, but I could see an official ruling going the other way and it wouldn't surprise me too much.

The relevant part is for now this sentence:

"At this point, both his ship and pilot ability trigger. He chooses the order to add them to the ability queue, adding his pilot ability first, then his ship ability."

Which is exactly how you explained it @sharrrp . If Ciena Ree would (for whatever reason) coordinate a barrel roll to Jake, Jake could choose the order of the two effects: the focus and turning 90°.

The part that has me still doubting are the examples where Jake's abilities are triggered again. This is probably where the once per opportunity rule comes into play? I.e., the same check of Ciena Ree whether the interceptor performed a boost/br only happens once after coordinating, and that already passed before the interceptor gets to the br/boost.

I read it as you can use autothrusters to trigger Ciena. " After you perform a [coordinate] action, if the ship you coordinated performed a [barrel roll] or [boost] action, it may gain 1 stress token to rotate 90˚.

Lamda's action is a coordinate, I coordinate my Interceptor. [everything after this point is "After you perform a coordinate]" It performs a focus, and then uses autothrusters to boost. Both the focus and boost are a direct result of the coordinate. Now it goes back to see if you fulfilled the requirements of Ciena. The Int did a boost, that fulfills it, it gains a stress to turn 90. It does not specify it must be the first action, so the order of queue rule is in effect.

This would result in 2 stress though. 1 for the red boost, 1 for the Ciena effect. Even if you did a blue, you are stressed.

autothrusters or not, she does allow for an amazing turn around.. boost, add a 90, then 2 bank for a 180 turn total.

from Ability Queue in the rules:

If a player has multiple abilities that triggered from the same event, that player chooses the order that those abilities are added to the ability queue

Both trigger after doing an action. Specifically, the first Coordinated action because linked actions are not considered one action.

Ciena would trigger at the same point, which is off the Focus action. But due to "i can order these as i see fit" you do the boost or roll first.

Ciena now gets to check if a boost or roll was performed. Since she does NOT specify "the coordinated action" and two actions were done before she checks, its valid.
If she specifically stated "If the ship you coordinated performed a boost or roll with the free action from coordinate " then no she wouldnt work.

And i totally flipped my view on this midwrite for this lol....wrote that rule and went...uh...wait no she does work lol

Ciena triggers off of the coordinated action not "at any point after the coordinated action". If she did, then you could coordinate a Focus in round 1 and then have the ship Boost and turn 90 in round 10.

So...

Coordinate Boost -> Autothruster Red Barrel-Roll -> turn 90 with second stress = A-OK

Coordinate Barrel-Roll -> Autothruster Red Boost -> turn 90 with second stress = A-OK

Coordinate Focus -> Autothruster Red Boost -> turn 90 with stress = No Way cause she did not coordinate a Boost or Barrel-Roll

Round 1 Coordinate Focus, Round 10 Ship Boosts -> turn 90 with stress = No Way cause she did not coordinate a Boost or Barrel-Roll

Relevent cards.

I think you can do this. Since Ciena says "if the ship you coordinated performed a boost or barrel roll", not "if you coordinated a boost or barrel roll"

Ciena does trigger off the coordinated action.
So does the Autothrustors.

Thus, two effects off same trigger, the player may use them in any order they wish.

Ciena just asks for a blanket action after the coordinate is done. Thats all. She does not call out the specific action coordinate did. There are several ways it could have been worded to call out the specific coordinated action but its not worded those ways.

Whether or not people will do this is a bigger question because thats doublestressing a ship that kinda thrives on its mobility, which stress denies.

I feel she does permit Autothrusters as part of her ability, not only because of the way it's written on her card, but also because of how well it synergizes with Autothrusters. Ree, I feel, is specifically designed to work well with Interceptors (she's an Interceptor pilot after all), so this level of brutal efficiency at the expense of double stress makes perfect sense and is in the spirit of the character. That said, the wording also makes sense. A coordinated Squint can always perform a broll or boost because of Autothrusters and Ree's ability simply states, "if the ship you coordinated performed a broll or boost action". It doesn't say she had to cause that action directly. This is, of course, a special case because of Autothrusters, but could also come up with linked action (can't remember who has an action to broll, but I think there is an Imperial ship that does that).

Theres a handful that have linked actions the other way around, which also still works.

Broll > Focus > Ree rotate for example.

The fact that shes not stress cancelled leads to some comical events. For instance a Daredevil'd Defender can 4k backwards.... (daredevil is still a boost in 2.0, just says use the 1turn instead of 1bank) lol

But yeah i cant think of any other than Vader's "I do ALL THE ACTIONS" ability that would have the second action be mobility based.

@Vineheart01 I am most excited to try out this interaction on punishers and bombers, both have boost/br to TL.
Redline can do it without double stressing even. Coordinate a boost, Ability to get a TL, Take stress to rotate 90'.
Rhymer APT would be fun as well, Coordinate BR, Link to TL, Take 2nd stress to rotate 90".

15 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Redline can do it without double stressing even. Coordinate a boost, Ability to get a TL, Take stress to rotate 90'

....Ouch. That's a nasty thing to notice. Especially with a medium ship boost.

The nastiest thing here is that Ciena Ree's co-ordinate happens at the initiative of her ship - most likely an Initiative 1 Omicron Group Pilot or Scarif Base Pilot (with tactical officer), meaning you don't need to use a linked action - use her ability to bank & turn, then perform a blue move and get your normal action anyway - effectively giving a TIE punisher a move that's equivalent to a barrel-roll-plus-white-180'-turn

The highest she could possibly go off is 5 but who the heck is going to put her on Chirpy?

Realistically, 4 because Kagi and Vermeil

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 1:36 PM, Vineheart01 said:

The fact that shes not stress cancelled leads to some comical events. For instance a Daredevil'd Defender can 4k backwards.... (daredevil is still a boost in 2.0, just says use the 1turn instead of 1bank) lol

This would make me laugh.

So, was this determined to be valid play/is it still?

-Coordinate (any action)

-Queue AT and Ciena Ree

-Perform AT

-Perform CR

I think most people agree that the ruling on Lt. Sai,

• : If Lieutenant Sai [Lambda-class Shuttle] coordinates a ship and it performs an action followed by a linked action, can Lieutenant Sai perform the linked action instead of the initial action?
• A: No. Lieutenant Sai can only perform the initial action

Would indicate that the first action coordinated must be a boost or barrel roll to trigger Cienna. I think you could still choose to use autothrusters for a second action before using Cienna, but the first action must be one of those two.

I think the recent Jake/AP-5 discussion is relevant.

My understanding of the majority opinion is that "while coordinating" on AP-5 describes only the initial action, the one part of the 3-step process of coordinating; linked actions are allowed, but they happen outside the window of time which could be called "coordinating," and would not apply AP-5's allowance to perform actions while stressed.

I think it's possible to bring that understanding of time and coordinating to Ciena Ree's "if the ship you coordinated performed a Barrel Roll or Boost action." The Interceptor is only the ship Ciena Ree coordinated while for the time period when it's performing the coordinated action. Then it's just some other ship in the list. Autothrusters happens when the Interceptor is no longer the ship Ciena Ree coordinated. A ship which used the coordinate to perform a Focus wouldn't meet the test "if the ship you coordinated performed a Barrel Roll or Boost action."

However, since Afterburners and Ciena Ree's twist are effect which are triggered by the same event: the coordinated action. As such, if the coordinated action was a boost or barrel roll (thus valid for Ciena's ability), the Interceptor could resolve the Autothrusters action before resolving the twist. Again, only so long as the coordinated (and not just the Autothrusters action) was a valid trigger for Ciena's ability.

29 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

I think you could still choose to use autothrusters for a second action before using Cienna, but the first action must be one of those two.

I'd agree with this.