So, nobody's talking about 2.0 Rebel Han?

By MasterShake2, in X-Wing

So, I got the game really wanted to test out Fat Han. Played against one of the best local players, routinely places at top in regionals, always wins a store champ or 2 every season and even placed top 16 at worlds. He was running 4 ship rebels, one of his preferred archetypes. I had Luke with Stealth Device, R5 and S-Foils and Han With Lone Wolf, Kanan, R2D2 and the title.

I started Luke and Han moving in opposite directions. I gave him initiative mostly for his Luke and split to try and force him to commit. I was able to get him to waffle a bit and used initiative with boosting to play keep away and we traded minor shields at long range. He saw what looked like a chance to pin Han because he definitely thought I'd be doing a hard turn with a boost, but it definitely seemed like a trap, so I made a substantial gamble into a sloop on the board edge figuring that if he set a kill zone going after the hard turn, I could stay mostly at long range with the sloop, then straight 4, clear stress with Kanan and boost out and even though this was taking me far from rocks, I still had Kanan and Lone Wolf active and it let Luke safely Tallon Roll into a pursuit. the gamble paid off quite well and we traded small numbers of shields. His Luke turned to meet my Luke with a B-Wing in tow while his U-Wing (built for blocking) and X-Wing gave a half hearted chase to Han, but mostly setup for a kill zone on my Luke.

The initial trade of Lukes went super badly, I took 2 damage and only put one on him, but shrugged off the B-Wing. At this point, I definitely noticed how he had positioned his ships for a killzone on Luke. His Luke was well positioned to block most slow maneuvers with the B, X, and U wing all having shots. I was 90% certain he couldn't block a 3 bank and, unless he did something weird, I was pretty sure, I could also boost out of the trap. The guess was spot on and Luke was able to boost into a range 1 shot on the tokenless U-Wing while Han was also able to get a fully modded shot on it. The U-Wing got knocked down the 1 hp, but also knocked Luke down to 1 (yeah, Luke's dice were anti-good this game).

Fortuantely, because Luke ducked the killzone and the U-Wing was on 1 HP and had a crit that would kill if it did a non-straight, I had enough room to straight 4 Luke away and take a minute to R5 twice. Then Han had a run of bad luck. First damage card he took all game was a structural damage. So a ship build around modding dice, no long rolled defense dice unless I could get out to range 3 or obstructed. Fortunately, despite the bad Luck, the U-Wing was almost dead and very limited in how it could contribute, the generic X-Wing was down to 3 health, and Luke himself had taken some hits. Ducking his kill zone was spreading my damage, but the shell game of the high initiative boosting ships was also spreading his damage around a lot.

Due to a straight 4 maneuver that Han only barely clears (about a milimeter from an asteroid) he's able to boost past Luke and the B-Wing trying to line up shots on his no defense dice butt and clip the B-Wing for 3. His Luke is forced to break away for my Luke, the U-Wing drops and Han kills the B-wing with a pair of range 1 modded shots over 2 more turns. By the time we reset to the joust, Han is limping hard and Luke is down to 1, but his Luke is only at 2 and his X-Wing is only at 3. He's forced to use his Luke for a block to set up the X-Wing for a potential game ender, but has to do it on naked dice and fails, then Han kills it next turn before it gets a second attempt.

With his Luke on 2 and Han on 1 hull plus a shield, I hard turn into him hoping for the range 1 kill shot and by using his pilot ability, Lone Wolf and Kanan kill him with Han limping away.

It was a fantastic game and really came down to the wire, but also demonstrates a lot of what I've observed about Han in previous games. This was a terrible scenario for him because the first hit being a Structural damage probably cost him at least 4-5 health over the the course of the game. Luke also botching the very first defense roll and then taking 3 damage from an unmodded U-Wing shot was also really bad, but Han and this build was so good that it still had a toolset capable of pulling the game out even with a major part of his defenses down.

For reference in regards to the turret, I spent 0 turns with it not in the butterfly configuration. There was exactly 1 turn where it would've helped to be in the hourglass config, but the X-Wing's dice didn't show up as much as they needed to, so it didn't matter. This is why I think Luke Gunner doesn't matter and even Agile Gunner is just too expensive for me to care. It doesn't take much work to just never have to shoot out of the front and back because the sides are so generous. Also, for the record, there were 2 turns where I didn't have his pilot ability active, the sloop and the turn after doing the 4 straight with a boost. It was a calculated risk, but it worked. There were only 3 shots all game where Han didn't score the maximum possible hits, two of them where the sloop and return turn and another was a random turn where he re-rolled 2 blanks and a focus into 2 blanks and a focus and it wasn't worth going for Lone Wolf or Kanan in that position. R2D2 gave me between 5-6 shields, the only card he ever flipped faceup was a console fire that did 0 damage for 3 turns because of Han's pilot ability before I felt I was in a good enough position to take a breather and fix it. In short, very impressed with new fat Han.

5 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

Uh, hang on.

That's not true.

You can definitely shoot out of the other side of the bowtie with VTG. Each side is a separate arc, why would you think otherwise?

I was honestly thinking specifically about unique Rebel gunners. Was in the mindset of comparing the Rebel Han to Scum Han. I did mention Han Gunner as an example of what I meant about the bowtie. Suppose it doesn't really matter though, because I definitely did not think that was the case with Veteran Turret Gunner either. I will blame incorrectly believing that "primary weapon" and "primary attack" were meant to be related terms. As in, primary attacks only come from primary weapons. That's why I also believed that Bistan didn't work with bowties, because they simply don't have a "primary weapon" to make a "primary attack".

VTG, Ezra, and Han still don't work nearly as well as with the single mobile arcs, because on a bowtie they can't possibly be used to double tap the same target. They still eat the use of a specific mobile arc, but you would have the primary weapon arc. That combination can cover adjacent arcs and make targeting a lot easier. On a bowtie, VTG might trigger every once in a while then, but always on different targets due to different arcs and always on opposite arcs, which is just less useful in my opinion.

With Bistan you are still not able to concentrate your fire, but at least he lets you attack two different targets in the same arc. I think that is a much more likely situation to be in with the Falcon, at least in my past experience it has been. That's probably why he costs almost twice as much as Veteran Turret Gunner too, because he might actually be used quite a bit on bowties. He only offers a bonus attack with mobile arcs, but on a single mobile arc, he seems almost strictly inferior to the cheaper Veteran Turret Gunner. That focus prereq is pretty rough though, unless you have some way to get him a focus without him taking the action. Not only does it deny the evade action that the title needs and the boost action that the build originally discussed here needs, it denies the use of the token on the primary attack. He definitely seems a little steep at the same cost as Kanan.

Well, I HAVE never laid hands on that beautiful falcon given the atrocious ruleset of 1st edition...

kinda wanna jank it now

(197)

Han Solo — YT-1300 92
Trick Shot 1
Bistan 14
Lando Calrissian 5
R2-D2 (Crew) 8
Hull Upgrade *
Millennium Falcon 6
Rigged Cargo Chute 4
Ship Total: 133
Kyle Katarn — HWK-290 38
Trick Shot 1
Perceptive Copilot 10
Engine Upgrade *
Moldy Crow 12
Ship Total: 64
41 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

In short, very impressed with new fat Han.

Sounds like a good time. I am 100% behind Luke in the X-Wing despite the cost. Great frame, great pilot ability, good value even at second best I5.

I did try putting out a large base with a random arrangement of obstacles and stuff. It honestly isn't something I have tried to measure out before. I do feel like I have to actively try to stay within Range 1, but I can see how it could happen pretty regularly. I think your opponent can make things difficult for you though, if they bring small obstacles and try not to cluster them for you. Then add in all these people promising to bring seismics. The turrent gunner options are at least a little better than I believed though, so there's that. How often did you find yourself able to use Kanan as a way to flip focus results instead of as a stress eraser?

I dunno I think I would still just feel more comfortable slavishly adhering to the proto-meta and put as many decent ships on the table as I can no matter the faction. Kinda like the list your friend from tonight brought, only I don't think I could ever see myself bringing a B-Wing. Did he actually use the canon slots or something? HLC could have been pretty darn good I guess. U's seem better than B's or 1.0 U's, but I just haven't found myself including them either. X-wings and Y-Wings all day.

25 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Well, I HAVE never laid hands on that beautiful falcon given the atrocious ruleset of 1st edition...

kinda wanna jank it now

(197)

Han Solo — YT-1300 92
Trick Shot 1
Bistan 14
Lando Calrissian 5
R2-D2 (Crew) 8
Hull Upgrade *
Millennium Falcon 6
Rigged Cargo Chute 4
Ship Total: 133
Kyle Katarn — HWK-290 38
Trick Shot 1
Perceptive Copilot 10
Engine Upgrade *
Moldy Crow 12
Ship Total: 64

I also tried to find a way to make Lando work with this instead of Kanan. It sucks that he eats the action, but I guess he seems a bit OP without that. As an action he seems so useless or at least unreliable for his points anywhere but on Han, so I wanted to figure out how to get him on board somehow. He seems like better synergy with the title but a focus is still a pretty unlikely result from him even with a reroll. So I feel like he cuts the potential for those super important three red dice. That's only if you aren't regularly using Kanan's force charge to clear the stress of red maneuvers, boosting, or moving through debris fields though.

The addition of Katarn helps with the focus a lot. I am guessing your Falcon won't be boosting as much, so with EU Katarn should be able to keep up pretty well. Guess there is a higher chance of blocking with the lower Init. boost. Seems like even less red dice than before, but Bistan helps. It sounds like Luke worked pretty well for a slightly different build, but his offensive potential is probably a little higher than even the Moldy Crow.

The wording on Han's ability has changed a bit since 1.0. Do we think that he can choose to re-roll only some of his dice now or is it essentially the same as 1.0?

"All of your dice" means 'all' - it doesn't allow you to reroll less than all ('any'). The big difference is that you can now reroll them again.

As it's no longer restricted to attack dice, it's obviously a lot more valuable with 1-die rolls (defence, obstacles, R2-D2 repair) which are either an entirely good or bad result.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

So, it's better. But not as amazing as I think it would need to be for more than half your list. Not that it's going to stop me flying Han and Luke at the launch event!

2 hours ago, MatCauthonReborn said:

So, it's better. But not as amazing as I think it would need to be for more than half your list. Not that it's going to stop me flying Han and Luke at the launch event!

No, it's pretty amazing, the whole "not counting as a re-roll" thing is incredibly stupid. An onlooker to that game casually joked that Han just made his dice whatever he wanted between pilot ability, title, lone wolf and Kanan when I didn't need the force to shed stress, and that onlooker wasn't wrong.

I just know from my experience with 1.0 Han that I would often want to boost, focus and evade to reliably roll 3 hits and minimise my incoming damage.

In 2.0 I imagine I'll be spending most of my actions boosting. Which means my modifiers are non-existent without a Force crew/gunner. Just saying that I expect 2 hits per shot most of the time

I'm pretty sure my first list on the table for 2.0 will be brobots with Tragedy Simulators and Seismics.

We'll see how much Han likes rocks then...

there are a lot of nice system slot options in second edition, such as Tragedy Simulators :( and Cool Detectors ?

11 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

I had Luke with Stealth Device, R5 and S-Foils and Han With Lone Wolf, Kanan, R2D2 and the title.

Did you find Stealth Device to be worth it? I was considering trying out this build but with Adv. Proton Torpedoes instead. I find when I'm flying Luke I'm taking a TL a lot of the time so it seems pretty likely that I'd be able to get into R1 in order to fire them.

15 minutes ago, imrandy85 said:

Did you find Stealth Device to be worth it? I was considering trying out this build but with Adv. Proton Torpedoes instead. I find when I'm flying Luke I'm taking a TL a lot of the time so it seems pretty likely that I'd be able to get into R1 in order to fire them.

It's mostly there for swarms, the extra green puts the math more in his favor and this Luke is mostly just there to eat my opponents time and resources killing him while threatening consistent damage if they ignore him.

Obviously this game he blanked the first defense roll, but 1 result does not, a conclusion, make.