13 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Obviously there is a problem here. Our main difference of opinion is that you attribute the problem to FFG while I attribute it to you.

You're the one who wants a duplicate copy of something, and also you're the one placing all these restrictions on how you can acquire it. So you won't wait for a future release, and you won't touch the secondary market, and you won't recoup costs by selling or trading the unneeded pieces.

OK. Then the card's going to cost you $20. But it's not because you lack options. You're the one making you buy a full pack for just one card.

Ah, see I thought FFG was the one who said that everything in the expansions was in going to be in the conversion kits. I didn't realize that apparently *I* was the one who put that in the description. No, I'm the one who wants FFG to simply do as they said. They say every card in the 2nd ed expansions is in the conversion for that ship. This card is in a scum 2nd ed expansion, it is not in the scum conversion kit. so maybe get off your high horse for a minute and explain why it is ok other than thinking I am just looking for free stuff? I DO lack options. Please, oh wise one, tell me my other options besides "just don't use that upgrade" and spend $20 or $40 on a bunch of stuff I don't need to get 1 of them? Surely FFG intends me to go to a secondary market right? I'm sure their head of sales was all about that idea and built it into the business plan!

Also read my posts before you start telling me what I will and won't do. I have said several times that I will likely go to the secondary market for it. I know... reading and understanding is hard, it is much more fun to just right to the end, make assumptions and feel superior. But my whole point is that FFG should simply have done what they said and put the card in the scum conversion, or not put it in the Fang.

28 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

The principle is the same. I want the component, I buy the thing that has the component.

Look we both wish there were more Afterburners floating around. And anyone can see the basic XYZ of what you're saying: "FFG said everything from the expansions would be in the necessary conversion kit, but now they're in the necessary core set instead!"

But what's the functional difference vs. the conversion kit having one copy of Afterburners instead? And why are we complaining that they also put another one in the Fang Fighter, when more Afterburners is what we want?

As I have said, there is none.. we can't change the reality of it. Pleople keep coming back at me though. Keep either telling me I am wrong to think FFG should have it in the conversion kit, wrong for wanting more than 1, wrong to feel it is a little unfair that if I do really want a second that I need to pay extra despite it being promised.

And I'm not saying that I am upset it is in the core *instead*. I'm glad it's in the core. But it should be in the scum conversion as well. In fact there should be 2 in the conversion just like every other non-unique scum upgrade card. When they said the card was in the conversion kit, they did not say "unless it is already in the core".

Everyone is so eager to tell me I'm wrong, no one has said why FFG is right. They made a statement. That statement is a flat out lie. We can't do anything about it. We can't change it. But I don't have to pretend that it is ok that they are doing it.

On this forum everyone is so aggressive about RAW.. well RAW this: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/7/9/direct-confrontation/ " All of the ship and upgrade cards included in the Fang Fighter Expansion Pack can also be found in the Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit. " and tell me how my interpretation is wrong please.

Unless you can do that please stop telling me there are other ways to get the card, that there are other upgrades or build options that are better or that there will be future expansions that have it.

I actually agree, I misread some earlier arguments. It should be in the scum conversion kit. I was just looking at the BoLS unboxing for the kit, and there's an extra baggie in the S&V kit with two extra pilot cards, one extra upgrade, as well as some cardboard. There should be an afterburner in there (even if I think it's way overcosted).

13 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

As I have said, there is none.. we can't change the reality of it. Pleople keep coming back at me though. Keep either telling me I am wrong to think FFG should have it in the conversion kit, wrong for wanting more than 1, wrong to feel it is a little unfair that if I do really want a second that I need to pay extra despite it being promised.

And I'm not saying that I am upset it is in the core *instead*. I'm glad it's in the core. But it should be in the scum conversion as well. In fact there should be 2 in the conversion just like every other non-unique scum upgrade card. When they said the card was in the conversion kit, they did not say "unless it is already in the core".

Everyone is so eager to tell me I'm wrong, no one has said why FFG is right. They made a statement. That statement is a flat out lie. We can't do anything about it. We can't change it. But I don't have to pretend that it is ok that they are doing it.

On this forum everyone is so aggressive about RAW.. well RAW this: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/7/9/direct-confrontation/ " All of the ship and upgrade cards included in the Fang Fighter Expansion Pack can also be found in the Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit. " and tell me how my interpretation is wrong please.

Unless you can do that please stop telling me there are other ways to get the card, that there are other upgrades or build options that are better or that there will be future expansions that have it.

Fair enough, I won't say you're wrong.

I will say that the world you hope for is functionally identical to the world we live in. It literally does not matter that our copy of Afterburners came from the core set instead of the conversion kits. Veteran players are buying both anyways for a full switch-over, like FFG said we would need to. They are functionally the same purchase for a veteran player.

It's like if I told you 'Tom and Jerry are both coming by in a ten minutes, Tom is bringing you ice cream.' And then five minutes later I told you 'Wait, sorry, Jerry is bringing you ice cream.' While sure, technically I told you Tom was bringing ice cream first, any complaints about the change in plans would seem a little silly.

2 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

Fair enough, I won't say you're wrong.

I will say that the world you hope for is functionally identical to the world we live in. It literally does not matter that our copy of Afterburners came from the core set instead of the conversion kits. Veteran players are buying both anyways for a full switch-over, like FFG said we would need to. They are functionally the same purchase for a veteran player.

It's like if I told you 'Tom and Jerry are both coming by in a ten minutes, Tom is bringing you ice cream.' And then five minutes later I told you 'Wait, sorry, Jerry is bringing you ice cream.' While sure, technically I told you Tom was bringing ice cream first, any complaints about the change in plans would seem a little silly.

Sure, I don't even hope for that world. I just hope for a world in which the community lets FFG know that they see what they did, and it isn't cool.

I think the difference of opinion in our particular view, is that you see it as if AB was in the conversion it wouldn't be in the core. I don't see it as one or the other. It was ALWAYS in the core. When they put it in the Fang, they should have also included it in the conversion.

New to the game and playing scum: you get AB from the core, and 1 for every Fang you own. (extra silly, because as the topic of this thread states, Fangs can't even use AB except for the Quick builds)

Existing player: you get AB from the core and if you feel you need more wait for other wave conversions or buy a ship you already own.

And the analogy is more -
"Tom is bringing ice cream. Jerry is also bringing Ice cream"
"Oh good, I told a friend that he should come over as well for all the ice cream!"
"Jerry doesn't have ice cream for you.. you've known Jerry for years, he only gives it to new friends."

And then in this thread -
"But you said Jerry would have ice cream"
"What is your problem!? I already said Tom had ice cream. Why isn't that enough for you. so greedy!"
"... just, you know, you said Jerry would have some too."
"He never said Jerry would have Ice cream"
"GOD! if you need ice cream so bad why don't you just go buy some?"
"I don't want to buy some, I just planned on Jerry having it, because you said he would."
"Well if you hate Jerry so much, you could always buy an ice cream machine and make you own, did you think of that? Also Butch will probably bring ice cream by in like 6 months, you can buy it from him. Besides, who needs that much ice cream, it's not even that good."

lol

11 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Sure, I don't even hope for that world. I just hope for a world in which the community lets FFG know that they see what they did, and it isn't cool.

I think the difference of opinion in our particular view, is that you see it as if AB was in the conversion it wouldn't be in the core. I don't see it as one or the other. It was ALWAYS in the core. When they put it in the Fang, they should have also included it in the conversion.

New to the game and playing scum: you get AB from the core, and 1 for every Fang you own. (extra silly, because as the topic of this thread states, Fangs can't even use AB except for the Quick builds)

Existing player: you get AB from the core and if you feel you need more wait for other wave conversions or buy a ship you already own.

And the analogy is more -
"Tom is bringing ice cream. Jerry is also bringing Ice cream"
"Oh good, I told a friend that he should come over as well for all the ice cream!"
"Jerry doesn't have ice cream for you.. you've known Jerry for years, he only gives it to new friends."

And then in this thread -
"But you said Jerry would have ice cream"
"What is your problem!? I already said Tom had ice cream. Why isn't that enough for you. so greedy!"
"... just, you know, you said Jerry would have some too."
"He never said Jerry would have Ice cream"
"GOD! if you need ice cream so bad why don't you just go buy some?"
"I don't want to buy some, I just planned on Jerry having it, because you said he would."
"Well if you hate Jerry so much, you could always buy an ice cream machine and make you own, did you think of that? Also Butch will probably bring ice cream by in like 6 months, you can buy it from him. Besides, who needs that much ice cream, it's not even that good."

lol

Just buy a second Tom. Each Tom comes with one pint of Ice Cream!

Not reading the whole thread here... but I have full copies of all the v2 and my experience in using Afterburners is that it ranks in somewhere (for my style of play, YMMV) as between "Meh" and "Sure, why not". They're overcosted for my lists, but again... sure you may get more mileage out of them. But as a whole, they're pretty much relegated to one of the last things I'd consider putting in a list now.

15 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Sure, I don't even hope for that world. I just hope for a world in which the community lets FFG know that they see what they did, and it isn't cool.

I think the difference of opinion in our particular view, is that you see it as if AB was in the conversion it wouldn't be in the core. I don't see it as one or the other. It was ALWAYS in the core. When they put it in the Fang, they should have also included it in the conversion.

New to the game and playing scum: you get AB from the core, and 1 for every Fang you own. (extra silly, because as the topic of this thread states, Fangs can't even use AB except for the Quick builds)

Existing player: you get AB from the core and if you feel you need more wait for other wave conversions or buy a ship you already own.

And the analogy is more -
"Tom is bringing ice cream. Jerry is also bringing Ice cream"
"Oh good, I told a friend that he should come over as well for all the ice cream!"
"Jerry doesn't have ice cream for you.. you've known Jerry for years, he only gives it to new friends."

And then in this thread -
"But you said Jerry would have ice cream"
"What is your problem!? I already said Tom had ice cream. Why isn't that enough for you. so greedy!"
"... just, you know, you said Jerry would have some too."
"He never said Jerry would have Ice cream"
"GOD! if you need ice cream so bad why don't you just go buy some?"
"I don't want to buy some, I just planned on Jerry having it, because you said he would."
"Well if you hate Jerry so much, you could always buy an ice cream machine and make you own, did you think of that? Also Butch will probably bring ice cream by in like 6 months, you can buy it from him. Besides, who needs that much ice cream, it's not even that good."

lol

Sure, you say the devil is in the details and I'll say you're missing the forest for the trees. Cheers.

8 minutes ago, Slugrage said:

Not reading the whole thread here... but I have full copies of all the v2 and my experience in using Afterburners is that it ranks in somewhere (for my style of play, YMMV) as between "Meh" and "Sure, why not". They're overcosted for my lists, but again... sure you may get more mileage out of them. But as a whole, they're pretty much relegated to one of the last things I'd consider putting in a list now.

Oh yeah. I have a friend who says it's under-costed and is expecting a nerf. It is really a personal preference thing. I'd likely use it on Vader and Defenders. In my double defender list having the option to boost and roll twice per game can be very very strong. They need their agility to perform the best. And for those 16 points, there isn't too much better. But of course I'm sure I could make them fun and functional with other mods too.

18 minutes ago, Slugrage said:

Not reading the whole thread here... but I have full copies of all the v2 and my experience in using Afterburners is that it ranks in somewhere (for my style of play, YMMV) as between "Meh" and "Sure, why not". They're overcosted for my lists, but again... sure you may get more mileage out of them. But as a whole, they're pretty much relegated to one of the last things I'd consider putting in a list now.

It is a very overpriced card on most ships. On the right ships i feel it is undercosted. This seems like an autoinclude on I6 ships like vader or wedge to me. Twice per game after you know everyones position you can boost to get you out of kill boxes even while stressed. Anyone who has played or played against soontir knows how hard he is to pin down with a boost and barrel roll at PS 9. In some instances it could be like spending 8 points for 8 shield upgrades. (Good deal right?) Assuming that boost gets you out of a kill box twice.

20 hours ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Boom. At least two different Fang pilots can carry Afterburners.

inb4 someone brings up "tournament play" without also mentioning that upgrade slots are not set in stone and can be changed via the app

And by "at least", you mean "only these"

For the record though, this also makes S&V the only faction to have a way to get afterburners without having to buy a core set, I believe? I can pick up a full set of 2.0 movement templates for less than $20, and could probably pick up a damage deck on the secondary for $10 ish pretty soon.

Scum Bias!

52 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

For the record though, this also makes S&V the only faction to have a way to get afterburners without having to buy a core set, I believe? I can pick up a full set of 2.0 movement templates for less than $20, and could probably pick up a damage deck on the secondary for $10 ish pretty soon.

Scum Bias!

You can certainly get a damage deck on the secondary market. Since the pre-orders come with a limited ed. deck people will be dumping the small card edition cheap. You also don't need 2nd ed templates. FFG said the 1st ed ones are legal for tournaments. Though you will want to make the 1 straight for the sake of rolls. Of course acrylic ones are nice. All 1st ed rocks and debris are also supported allowed. And if you are like me, you already have all the dice you need.

23 hours ago, nexttwelveexits said:

inb4 someone brings up "tournament play" without also mentioning that upgrade slots are not set in stone and can be changed via the app

Joy Rekkoff? Did anyone else switch the "J" and "R" in their head upon first reading?

this has been discussed

13 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

They indicated that buying the conversion kits *and a core set* would get you everything, and it does*. There's plenty in the core that's in neither conversion kits nor wave 1 ships.
They also indicated that you wouldn't have to buy out of faction to get anything, and you don't*. But other than that, again, it's accurate, you can buy no expac ships from outside your faction and get everything*.

*The obvious exception is the Scum Falcon with Composure and Agile Gunner. Whinge about those, if you want, you'd actually have a point, you cannot get those in any non-Scum pack right now.

Agreed. If I have a core set and an imperial expansion pack, I have a copy of afterburners.

I don't have multiple copies of afterburners, but nor do I have enough copies of quite a few cards for the squads I want to run (heck, I don't have enough pilot cards, base inserts or dials, either, since I'm a swarm player at heart). I do have at least one copy of everything aside from Lando's Falcon.

The more relevant exception - which has also been grieved about - is Maul (for Rebels) and 0-0-0/BT-1 (For Galactic Empire), since these are only in the Scum conversion set, despite being available (under admittedly specific circumstances) to other factions, and as such are genuinely unavailable to those factions without buying an expansion with the wrong faction logo on it.

I just bought my first scum ships. Bought a first gen fang fighter, a second gen fang fighter, and a firespray 2.0. I don’t really want to go further into scum, but really liked the pilots and skills for the firespray and love the in your face style of the fang fighters. My scum lists will be two or three ship lists with just those three ships. I’ll mainly stick to empire and rebel and probably get resistance, but found these two ships too much fun not to try and play. Only partially relevant to topic, but liked to share.

On September 4, 2018 at 3:05 PM, PanchoX1 said:

yeah, this feels like a broken promise. but I didn't realize afterburners came in the core too. it's disappointing. but I'm not disappointed enough to rant about a game on a forum. it's a first world problem after all.

I hate to tell you this, but there is a thriving gaming scene here in Bolivia. The financial aspect of 2.0 had been a major pushing point for me trying to get people into X wing, and I said that 2.0 would be better, regarding the "ships for cards" financial trap.

The business model has not changed. It's just hidden behind some marketing spin for now.

On September 4, 2018 at 5:19 PM, YourHucklebrry said:

Sure, you say the devil is in the details and I'll say you're missing the forest for the trees. Cheers.

And, quite bizarrely, honestly, I just cut down a line of Eucalyptuses (dangerous) on the edge of my property and now I can see the forest 100m from my land perfectly. They blocked the view!

(The expression being you can't see the forest for the trees)

15 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

And, quite bizarrely, honestly, I just cut down a line of Eucalyptuses (dangerous) on the edge of my property and now I can see the forest 100m from my land perfectly. They blocked the view!

(The expression being you can't see the forest for the trees)

Wow, they transplanted them over there too? I thought those nuts jobs just brought some up here to Cali from Australia (the things nearly are a blight here, depending on how much you like black widows, they love them, and kindling that explodes when you burn it).

17 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Agreed. If I have a core set and an imperial expansion pack, I have a copy of afterburners. 

I don't have multiple copies of afterburners,

the more I think about this, the more I'm ok with it. I'm guessing that having afterburners in the scum conversion was the plan. but at some point during development they decided that more single faction pilots would want it and moved it to the core set for the same net result except now everyone can have a copy right out of the gate, not just scum players. Not to mention needing a copy for the quick-build Vader.

On 9/4/2018 at 2:30 PM, xbeaker said:

Oh yeah. I have a friend who says it's under-costed and is expecting a nerf. It is really a personal preference thing. I'd likely use it on Vader and Defenders. In my double defender list having the option to boost and roll twice per game can be very very strong. They need their agility to perform the best. And for those 16 points, there isn't too much better. But of course I'm sure I could make them fun and functional with other mods too.

Not arguing for either sides, but thought you might like to know defenders can't take afterburners ?

11 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Wow, they transplanted them over there too? I thought those nuts jobs just brought some up here to Cali from Australia (the things nearly are a blight here, depending on how much you like black widows, they love them, and kindling that explodes when you burn it).

Yeah, we've got a Eucy problem here... Dried the marshland, then dried the land...

Anyway, back on thread....

37 minutes ago, Skandranon said:

Not arguing for either sides, but thought you might like to know defenders can't take afterburners ?

Yeah, I noticed that later. I ran them with AB in an early mock 2.0 game. Recently I went to check other builds I could run on YASB and noticed they have no upgrade slot. lol

On 9/4/2018 at 12:10 PM, xbeaker said:

If I want a second copy to use on my double defender list, how do I do it without spending money for a ship I don't want

Well then I guess I have good news for you.