3 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Fair enough. Just frustrated. Not that FFG isn't fixing the way AB is distributed. I mean FFG certainly isn't going to change it at this point. But at all the people defending it with 'you don't NEED to buy a fang... '

You asked for options, people have given you options. You don't like them, that's on you. Getting frustrated and calling people names won't help you and won't change anything. So instead, maybe try to make the best of the situation or just have some patience. In 4 - 6 months, Afterburners will probably be release in an Imperial set and you can buy in faction to your hearts content.

Just now, NerroSama said:

Or you could wait for the card to be released with a Imp/Rebel ship. That is what FFG has promised.

They never promised that all card would be immediatly available in all pack at the same time.

oh, so I can buy a different ship I don't need! They did promise that the conversion kits would have everything that the expansions had. The scum conversion lacks cards the 1st wave scum ship has.

31 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

If I want a second copy to use on my double defender list, how do I do it without spending money for a ship I don't want? Without going to a secondary market. And they promised we would not need to buy ships we already owned from 1st ed, and they promised single faction players would not need to buy out of faction to get any upgrades.

You want a second copy without buying out-of-faction? You buy the new component (core set) that contains it or wait for a card pack for a future in-faction expansion that also contains it. The cost is commensurate to your impulse control and impatience.

I want a second X-Wing so I can fly Luke and Biggs together? Well I'll probably have to buy an X-Wing expansion pack. I want a tourney legal Scum Han crew for my Boba build, I buy the Lando's Falcon expansion. Seems simple enough, no?

On the other hand, if the card packs that are supposed to accompany re-released ships (vs new content) never show up or are decidedly incomplete, then FFG has gone back on their word and that'll suck.

1 minute ago, Nspace said:

You asked for options, people have given you options. You don't like them, that's on you. Getting frustrated and calling people names won't help you and won't change anything. So instead, maybe try to make the best of the situation or just have some patience. In 4 - 6 months, Afterburners will probably be release in an Imperial set and you can buy in faction to your hearts content.

Where did I ask for opinions? And I don't want to buy it in an imperial or rebel expansion either. I wanted FFG to do as they said and release a conversion kit that contains everything that is in the individual 1st 2nd ed. expansions. And yeah, after the 3rd person tells me I don't have to buy the Fang for $20 and I can buy the core again for $40 when the cost is the thing that is the problem, I start calling people out for being stupid. It's not that I am not opposed to scum ship, I fly scum as well as imperial and rebel. It is that I am opposed to spending money needlessly.

My point, hopefully for the last time, is that as an established player if I want a second copy of a general use upgrade card is that I will need to buy an expansion that I do no need. Effectively, if I don't want to go to a secondary market, I will be spending $20 for that card. And that this is in direct contradiction to what FFG said would be happening on the initial release.

Furthermore, for OTHER players just coming into the game... if they don't want to play the scum faction, but would like to use more than 1 AB for wave 1 tournaments, they too will need to buy something they do not want to get a single card.

I'm not arguing that I (or anyone else) can't make a list without more than 1. I'm not saying I have some sort of moral objection to purchasing anything from the scum faction. I'm aware that secondary market's exist and that I can, and probably will, use them to get the card. I am only stating that FFG made claims which they are not backing up.

41 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Fair enough. Just frustrated. Not that FFG isn't fixing the way AB is distributed. I mean FFG certainly isn't going to change it at this point. But at all the people defending it with 'you don't NEED to buy a fang... '

Yeah the "buy a second core set" is a pretty bad argument...

11 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

You want a second copy without buying out-of-faction? You buy the new component (core set) that contains it or wait for a card pack for a future in-faction expansion that also contains it. The cost is commensurate to your impulse control and impatience.

I want a second X-Wing so I can fly Luke and Biggs together? Well I'll probably have to buy an X-Wing expansion pack. I want a tourney legal Scum Han crew for my Boba build, I buy the Lando's Falcon expansion. Seems simple enough, no?

On the other hand, if the card packs that are supposed to accompany re-released ships (vs new content) never show up or are decidedly incomplete, then FFG has gone back on their word and that'll suck.

Yeah, but in your example, you are using the ships. If I was ******* that I wanted to fly a Fen/ Teroch list but can't because I only have 1 Fang, then that is bad on me. And for Lando's falcon expansion cards, that isn't a ship I am getting in the conversion kits. Yeah, 100% agree. I am not going to complain that Composure doesn't come in the conversion kit. It is an all new upgrade. Though it does suck for new non-scum players I'm on board with the idea that it is currently unavailable unless you get that expansion (though it should be in the very next rebel / imperial ships as well for fairness)

I also agree that it should be in those card packs. Which is why I said I'd even be ok with ABs only being in the scum conversion kit, as the scum conversion kit should have everything the 1st wave expansions have.

Long term I'm sure I'll have more. And because I posted a lot in this thread it makes it seem like it is a bigger deal to me than it is. Honestly it's not a huge sticking point to me. I'll proxy it, borrow a spare or ebay it if I really need it. It's just a bit annoying that they said everything in the expansions for wave 1 would be in the conversion kit.

No reason.

I wanna nitpick!

I believe that they said that everything available "in the wave 1 expansions would be available in the conversion kits" NOT "everything in the wave 1 expansions will be available in each conversion kit. But for the record, I don't think it would have been unreasonable to put one in there.

2 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

I wanna nitpick!

I believe that they said that everything available "in the wave 1 expansions would be available in the conversion kits" NOT "everything in the wave 1 expansions will be available in each conversion kit. But for the record, I don't think it would have been unreasonable to put one in there.

MNitpick better; Afterburners isn't in any of the conversion kits

Honestly, yes, it's a bit unsavoury to include what people think is probably a must-have upgrade only in the core and a specific faction's pack. But it is what was promised. And let's be honest, even if it was in at least one ship from each faction outside the core, people would still find a reason to moan, because the people continuously moaning aren't looking for solutions.

They want to moan.

1 minute ago, JasonCole said:

I wanna nitpick!

I believe that they said that everything available "in the wave 1 expansions would be available in the conversion kits" NOT "everything in the wave 1 expansions will be available in each conversion kit. But for the record, I don't think it would have been unreasonable to put one in there.

Yeah, and if AB was in the Scum conversion kit it would be cased closed. But it isn't in any conversion kits.

People keep coming back and nit picking me. Like you are going to get some kind of points for defending FFG for this. I am not here to change the reality of it. We aren't getting AB in wave 1 anywhere except the Core and the Fang. It is what it is. But I don't see why I am the bad guy for saying FFG is in the wrong for saying everything in the 1st wave expansions would be in the conversion kits (and I will amend that to 'everything from the 1st wave will be in the factions conversion kit') and then not following through.

IMO at least, people taking what FFG said in what's practically a marketing pitch without a grain of salt, despite years of doing the exact opposite, are at least a bit naive.

7 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Yeah, and if AB was in the Scum conversion kit it would be cased closed. But it isn't in any conversion kits.

People keep coming back and nit picking me. Like you are going to get some kind of points for defending FFG for this. I am not here to change the reality of it. We aren't getting AB in wave 1 anywhere except the Core and the Fang. It is what it is. But I don't see why I am the bad guy for saying FFG is in the wrong for saying everything in the 1st wave expansions would be in the conversion kits (and I will amend that to 'everything from the 1st wave will be in the factions conversion kit') and then not following through.

The point is that they didn't say that.

They said you wouldn't have to buy out of faction to get upgrades.

And let's face it there are bigger fish to fry on that score.

E: and honestly, I don't think anyone here is really talking for any particular reason other than to fill time until 2e actually drops. When it does and people start playing I suspect we'll see a lot less whinging.

I agree you probably dont want more than 1 afterburners in a list. But as i mentioned it would be nice to have 2 copies so that when friends come over and use my material, both sides have access to it. And yes i could just print or proxy. But ffg has seemed to have at least 2 copies of everything between the core and conversions. Just not afterburners which is a bummer since its quite a powerful card.

4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

MNitpick better; Afterburners isn't in any of the conversion kits

Honestly, yes, it's a bit unsavoury to include what people think is probably a must-have upgrade only in the core and a specific faction's pack. But it is what was promised. And let's be honest, even if it was in at least one ship from each faction outside the core, people would still find a reason to moan, because the people continuously moaning aren't looking for solutions.

They want to moan.

I am usually on your side on these forums.. But I feel like you haven't really ready what I have said so far, and are just chalking me up as complaining for complaining sake. I agreed with the 3rd post, who said it would have been better to add the card to the conversion kit, or have 2 in the core. He was attacked for this. I then felt attacked for agreeing with him, all the while I have just been saying FFG should have done as they said and had the conversion kit include all the cards that come with the single expansions. I also think for the wave 1 starter ships they also should not have given a general use card to 1 faction and not the others, but that is pretty low on my radar.

If people are going to keep quoting me and asking for a response, I'll keep giving it. It is not me complaining, just responding.

7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The point is that they didn't say that.

They said you wouldn't have to buy out of faction to get upgrades.

And let's face it there are bigger fish to fry on that score.

E: and honestly, I don't think anyone here is really talking for any particular reason other than to fill time until 2e actually drops. When it does and people start playing I suspect we'll see a lot less whinging.

Edit, misread you there.. They absolutely DID say that the conversion kits would include everything in the 2nd ed expansions so 1st ed players would not need to buy 2nd ed copies of ships they owned already.

22 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Yeah, but in your example, you are using the ships. If I was ******* that I wanted to fly a Fen/ Teroch list but can't because I only have 1 Fang, then that is bad on me. And for Lando's falcon expansion cards, that isn't a ship I am getting in the conversion kits. Yeah, 100% agree. I am not going to complain that Composure doesn't come in the conversion kit. It is an all new upgrade. Though it does suck for new non-scum players I'm on board with the idea that it is currently unavailable unless you get that expansion (though it should be in the very next rebel / imperial ships as well for fairness) 

I also agree that it should be in those card packs. Which is why I said I'd even be ok with ABs only being in the scum conversion kit, as the scum conversion kit should have everything the 1st wave expansions have.

Long term I'm sure I'll have more. And because I posted a lot in this thread it makes it seem like it is a bigger deal to me than it is. Honestly it's not a huge sticking point to me. I'll proxy it, borrow a spare or ebay it if I really need it. It's just a bit annoying that they said everything in the expansions for wave 1 would be in the conversion kit.

The principle is the same. If I need component X, whether that's a ship, pilot card/base, or upgrade, I should expect to have to buy the pack that contains component X. And the core set is required content for all players old and new, and its independent of any promises FFG made about having to re-purchase ships for cardboard/card-stock.

Now, if we're being idealistic, I do wish the core set would've had another copy of Afterburners. Bumping the value of that set for veteran players who are getting conversion kits would be nice, particularly for players that are just converting Scum. But that's just a dream, and it's stuck between the rock that is a worthwhile core set and the hard place of having as much as possible in the conversion kits.

4 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Edit, misread you there.. They absolutely DID say that the conversion kits would include everything in the 2nd ed expansions so 1st ed players would not need to buy 2nd ed copies of ships they owned already.

Can you source your assertion?

Because that is absolutely not my recollection. This is:

They indicated that buying the conversion kits *and a core set* would get you everything, and it does*. There's plenty in the core that's in neither conversion kits nor wave 1 ships.
They also indicated that you wouldn't have to buy out of faction to get anything, and you don't*. But other than that, again, it's accurate, you can buy no expac ships from outside your faction and get everything*.

*The obvious exception is the Scum Falcon with Composure and Agile Gunner. Whinge about those, if you want, you'd actually have a point, you cannot get those in any non-Scum pack right now.

1 hour ago, xbeaker said:

They did promise that the conversion kits would have everything that the expansions had. The scum conversion lacks cards the 1st wave scum ship has.

yeah, this feels like a broken promise. but I didn't realize afterburners came in the core too. it's disappointing. but I'm not disappointed enough to rant about a game on a forum. it's a first world problem after all.

7 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

The principle is the same. If I need component X, whether that's a ship, pilot card/base, or upgrade, I should expect to have to buy the pack that contains component X. And the core set is required content for all players old and new, and its independent of any promises FFG made about having to re-purchase ships for cardboard/card-stock.

Now, if we're being idealistic, I do wish the core set would've had another copy of Afterburners. Bumping the value of that set for veteran players who are getting conversion kits would be nice, particularly for players that are just converting Scum. But that's just a dream, and it's stuck between the rock that is a worthwhile core set and the hard place of having as much as possible in the conversion kits.

With your Wedge / Luke example it is completely different, you are buying the ship to fly the ship. In my example I have the ships, dials, pilots, everything. I own 3 Fangs. If I want another AB, I am buying that expansion to get that 1 card. Which every other card and piece of cardboard in that expansion was provided to me already in the conversion kit. A Kit who's entire purpose is to convert ships I already own to have the things that come with the second ed expansions. In the Lando's falcon, that is also buying a ship I do not own. That is a new expansion which the conversion kit is not intended to upgrade.

The main point is that component X comes with the expansion, and the conversion kit is supposed to have everything the expansions have, yet does not contain component X.

I agree that the core should just have 2 ABs, they should have skipped them in the Fang altogether

2 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

With your Wedge / Luke example it is completely different, you are buying the ship to fly the ship. In my example I have the ships, dials, pilots, everything. I own 3 Fangs. If I want another AB, I am buying that expansion to get that 1 card. Which every other card and piece of cardboard in that expansion was provided to me already in the conversion kit. A Kit who's entire purpose is to convert ships I already own to have the things that come with the second ed expansions. In the Lando's falcon, that is also buying a ship I do not own. That is a new expansion which the conversion kit is not intended to upgrade.

The main point is that component X comes with the expansion, and the conversion kit is supposed to have everything the expansions have, yet does not contain component X.

I agree that the core should just have 2 ABs, they should have skipped them in the Fang altogether

Right but with the core + conversions you DO have everything!

You just don't have two of everything

9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Can you source your assertion?

Because that is absolutely not my recollection. This is:

They indicated that buying the conversion kits *and a core set* would get you everything, and it does*. There's plenty in the core that's in neither conversion kits nor wave 1 ships.
They also indicated that you wouldn't have to buy out of faction to get anything, and you don't*. But other than that, again, it's accurate, you can buy no expac ships from outside your faction and get everything*.

*The obvious exception is the Scum Falcon with Composure and Agile Gunner. Whinge about those, if you want, you'd actually have a point, you cannot get those in any non-Scum pack right now.

Quoted from the Fang description "The Fang Fighter Expansion Pack includes a fully pre-painted Fang Fighter miniature, a maneuver dial, and all the ship cards, upgrade cards, and tokens you need to add one of these deadly starfighters to your squadron. In addition, the Fang Fighter Expansion Pack contains a few entirely new cards that have never before appeared in the game's first edition. These new cards and associated punchboard are included in the Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit for the benefit of veteran players!"
(bolded for emphasis)

16 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Can you source your assertion?

From the Fang Preview article released on July 9th: All of the ship and upgrade cards included in the Fang Fighter Expansion Pack can also be found in the Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit.

10 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

9 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

With your Wedge / Luke example it is completely different, you are buying the ship to fly the ship. In my example I have the ships, dials, pilots, everything. I own 3 Fangs. If I want another AB, I am buying that expansion to get that 1 card. Which every other card and piece of cardboard in that expansion was provided to me already in the conversion kit. A Kit who's entire purpose is to convert ships I already own to have the things that come with the second ed expansions. In the Lando's falcon, that is also buying a ship I do not own. That is a new expansion which the conversion kit is not intended to upgrade.

The main point is that component X comes with the expansion, and the conversion kit is supposed to have everything the expansions have, yet does not contain component X. 

I agree that the core should just have 2 ABs, they should have skipped them in the Fang altogether

The principle is the same. I want the component, I buy the thing that has the component.

Look we both wish there were more Afterburners floating around. And anyone can see the basic XYZ of what you're saying: "FFG said everything from the expansions would be in the necessary conversion kit, but now they're in the necessary core set instead!"

But what's the functional difference vs. the conversion kit having one copy of Afterburners instead? And why are we complaining that they also put another one in the Fang Fighter, when more Afterburners is what we want?

1 minute ago, xbeaker said:

Aaaaand we're back to "Well, actually, it comes in the core"

An. Established. Player. Should. Not. Need. To. Buy. A. Ship. They. Already. Have. Enough. Of. Or. A. Second. Core. Just. For One. Upgrade.

Why are you all so hot to defend FFG on this?

Obviously there is a problem here. Our main difference of opinion is that you attribute the problem to FFG while I attribute it to you.

You're the one who wants a duplicate copy of something, and also you're the one placing all these restrictions on how you can acquire it. So you won't wait for a future release, and you won't touch the secondary market, and you won't recoup costs by selling or trading the unneeded pieces.

OK. Then the card's going to cost you $20. But it's not because you lack options. You're the one making you buy a full pack for just one card.