9 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Am I the only one who doesn't like clusters, doubly so on the Advanced? Waste of five points on Vader, invest those on the Defender or TIEs.

Vader's about the only one who can make meaningful use of them - because (a) he has force tokens to lob at otherwise unmodified shots and (b) he's so bloody expensive that fielding him means you're probably down a ship and a bonus attack is a nice way to compensate.

At the same time, clusters are far, far more cost effective on Jonus or Redline, where you're not paying for a 3 dice attack (or advanced targeting computer) and then not using it. If you absolutely must get vader missiles, I'd say either homing missiles (for a bit of punch at range 3) or proton rockets (for closer range 'where did my face go?' moments).

They're nice enough on the Quickbuild Vader if only because he doesn't pay anything for them (Vader + Supernatural Reflexes + Afterburners + Shield Upgrade=101 points which is pretty much dead on 4 threat), so it's hardly worth spilling tears over them if they never get used.

11 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

It's all about the spinNY WINGS.

Are people really that excited about spinny wings?

22 minutes ago, KenYn said:

Are people really that excited about spinny wings?

The wings are NOT actually 'spinny'. The model is just depicted with the wings on an angle relative to the position of the cockpit (thus creating the inference that the wings can spin)

At least, the model I got at Gencon cannot spin (so I assume that is the norm)

I don't know what anyone plans to accomplish with excessive afterburners

You only need the one you get in the core. Buggers are expensive, and the number of pilots that can make effective use of them are limited

1 hour ago, KenYn said:

Are people really that excited about spinny wings?

No. About as much as "flappy" s-foils.

55 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

The wings are NOT actually 'spinny'.

Oh. I thought they were. It does have a slightly different paint job, right?

24 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I don't know what anyone plans to accomplish with excessive afterburners

I'm going to use them to represent a fireplace in my house of spare cards.

47 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

The wings are NOT actually 'spinny'. The model is just depicted with the wings on an angle relative to the position of the cockpit (thus creating the inference that the wings can spin)

At least, the model I got at Gencon cannot spin (so I assume that is the norm)

Hmph, that's odd. I believe there was video of them spinning the wings. I'd hate to have you mess up your model, but have you tried twisting a little harder (maybe they're stuck)? I actually am a bit excited about SPINNY WINGS. It's the child in me that makes PEW PEW noises as I roll my red dice. They add to my fun!

what if the balance changed after it was printed?

Like how some cards have updated text from wave 14?

1 hour ago, blade_mercurial said:

The wings are NOT actually 'spinny'. The model is just depicted with the wings on an angle relative to the position of the cockpit (thus creating the inference that the wings can spin)

At least, the model I got at Gencon cannot spin (so I assume that is the norm)

Edit: So they are movable somewhat, just not 360 degrees, right?

1 minute ago, kris40k said:

Hmm, someone needs to tell FFG Marketing then:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/7/9/direct-confrontation/

The models at worlds spun. You should have a spinny fang

12 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

It's the first small Scum ship being released in 2.0 so they put the card in thre so people who only want to collect Scum have access to it without buying out of faction. The Firespray is more expensive and everyone converting likely already has one of those, so putting Afterburners in there would have sucked. Also, there's more of a reason to get a new Fang: SPINNY WINGS!, so folks are more apt to purchase this new model and get the card they'll want for other ships. And no buying out of faction. BOOM! Thanks FFG!

Not. delusion - practicality. You're a serious negative Nancy wherever you appear. Seriously dude, if you don't like it, don't buy it. My explanation makes perfect sense. Have you ever handled design and packaging? Dealt with production schedules? I have. It's hard, and weird stuff happens and you're forced to make compromises. Obviously, FFG had to make some sort of compromise otherwise, you're right, they would have added it to the conversion kits. What could have happened (or as you deem it, SHOULD have happened) doesn't matter one iota. Here's the reality: the card is available to scum players without having to buy out of faction in a package that Scum players will want to buy. That's both solid marketing and taking care of the consumer all in one.

Sorry, I have disagree. You are flat out wrong here. I am usually in defense of the business decisions FFG makes. This is NOT one of them. You say it's great for scum players so they don't have to buy out of faction? What about the imperial and rebel player who now DO have to buy out of faction. Even if we accept the speculation that there will be ABs in A-wings and Interceptors, that is wave 2. You know there will be tournaments that are wave 1 exclusive prior to wave 2 dropping. And then there is the re-purchasing of ships that we already own. As someone who owns 3 Protectorate Starfighters, 3 A-wings and 5 Interceptors I am really annoyed by this. it is is direct contradictions of what FFG said they were doing with the conversion kits. Any cards that come in the 2nd ed expansions should be in the conversion kits. It is an absolute betrayal that they would put a card in wave 1 that either requires 1st ed. players to buy copies of a ship they already own to get and also requires non-scum players to buy scum ships in the first wave to get an upgrade card.

And you are wrong about the production schedules. The Core set was the first one they developed, if afterburners was in there, there is no reason it couldn't be in the conversion kits. And yes, I understand the rigors of production schedules, I have worked in printing for over 20 years. As for the "Negative Nancy", he doesn't want to buy it, neither do I. That is the whole point. But FFG is forcing us to buy those $20 expansions for a single card. I don't care about the new sculpt, the spinny wings, or anything else in that pack. It is $20 for a single card, and that is garbage.

Core set is in faction for both rebs and imps

17 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

As for the "Negative Nancy", he doesn't want to buy it, neither do I. That is the whole point. But FFG is forcing us to buy those $20 expansions for a single card. I don't care about the new sculpt, the spinny wings, or anything else in that pack. It is $20 for a single card, and that is garbage. 

I'm sure it will be substantially cheaper than that on eBay. That's not necessarily to defend FFG, just to make sure you are aware of the option. Based on past precedent on 1e cards, I'll bet afterburners run in the $5-7 range on eBay for just the card. Not ideal certainly, but I did it for a few cards in 1e, and I don't doubt I'll do it again in 2e.

31 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

What about the imperial and rebel player who now DO have to buy out of faction ... FFG is forcing us to buy those $20 expansions for a single card. I don't care about the new sculpt, the spinny wings, or anything else in that pack. It is $20 for a single card, and that is garbage.

You don't have to buy out of faction if you decide you want a second official copy of Afterburners, it comes in the Rebel/Imperial core set. Buy another one of those if you decide you need it and can't stand the idea of buying a Fang Fighter on principle.

Or just print and sleeve as many copies as you want, no one cares.

17 minutes ago, direweasel said:

I'm sure it will be substantially cheaper than that on eBay. That's not necessarily to defend FFG, just to make sure you are aware of the option. Based on past precedent on 1e cards, I'll bet afterburners run in the $5-7 range on eBay for just the card. Not ideal certainly, but I did it for a few cards in 1e, and I don't doubt I'll do it again in 2e.

Oh, certainly. I am already going to be hitting eBay to fill out the holes from conversion kit, like the need for 2 more Interceptor dials. But that secondary markets exist is no excuse for FFG breaking the rules they set out for themselves in the very first wave.

58 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Edit: So they are movable somewhat, just not 360 degrees, right?

My understanding is that they are free on a shaft within the model, so they could spin 360 if the post didn't get in the way. But I've not actually seen the model in person to confirm.

3 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

You don't have to buy out of faction if you decide you want a second official copy of Afterburners, it comes in the Rebel/Imperial core set. Buy another one of those if you decide you need it and can't stand the idea of buying a Fang Fighter on principle.

Or just print and sleeve as many copies as you want, no one cares.

Who said I don't want to buy a fang out of principle?! It isn't a matter of principle of not buying that specific ship. I run all 3 faction (all 5 come wave 2) it is a matter of being required to spend money needlessly to have a tournament legal setup. A core costs $40, so that certainly isn't a better option than buying a $20 ship and effectively throwing all but the 1 card away. It should just come in the scum conversion kit. Or more accurately, 2 should come in the scum conversion kit. I'm even ok with 2 being in the scum conversion kit, and none in the rebel/imp kits until the wave 2 pilot update packs for those factions.

And some people do care.. the TO's and opponent's at tournaments care a LOT. Maybe I can borrow one. But I shouldn't have to, they should already be part of my collection per the guidelines FFG put down at the very first 2nd ed reveal!

2 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Who said I don't want to buy a fang out of principle?! It isn't a matter of principle of not buying that specific ship. I run all 3 faction (all 5 come wave 2) it is a matter of being required to spend money needlessly to have a tournament legal setup. A core costs $40, so that certainly isn't a better option than buying a $20 ship and effectively throwing all but the 1 card away. It should just come in the scum conversion kit. Or more accurately, 2 should come in the scum conversion kit. I'm even ok with 2 being in the scum conversion kit, and none in the rebel/imp kits until the wave 2 pilot update packs for those factions.

And some people do care.. the TO's and opponent's at tournaments care a LOT. Maybe I can borrow one. But I shouldn't have to, they should already be part of my collection per the guidelines FFG put down at the very first 2nd ed reveal!

I'll be honest I have no clue what you're complaining about anymore. When 2.0 drops it is a part of your collection. You have a copy of Afterburners from the core set that everyone needs to buy anyways. Where did FFG promise you X number of copies?

1 hour ago, xbeaker said:

FFG is forcing us to buy those $20 expansions for a single card.

This is incorrect

Unless FFG is actually running a protection racket in certain neighborhoods or something, in which case I guess I owe some people an apology

40 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

I'll be honest I have no clue what you're complaining about anymore. When 2.0 drops it is a part of your collection. You have a copy of Afterburners from the core set that everyone needs to buy anyways. Where did FFG promise you X number of copies?

If I want a second copy to use on my double defender list, how do I do it without spending money for a ship I don't want? Without going to a secondary market. And they promised we would not need to buy ships we already owned from 1st ed, and they promised single faction players would not need to buy out of faction to get any upgrades.

3 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

If I want a second copy to use on my double defender list, how do I do it without spending money for a ship I don't want? Without going to a secondary market.

You wait until it comes out in the Interceptor Expansion pack or, if you absolutely cannot wait, you buy a second core set.

Or you don't get so hung up on having to have Afterburners on everything and you try other upgrades or even not run any upgrades at all. In all the 2.0 games I've seen and played, more ships with fewer upgrades is superior to fewer ships with more upgrades.

36 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

FFG is actually running a protection racket

Do you have proof of this? It is a pretty bold claim to make on a their own forum. You should contact the police with your evidence. Or is it just easy to take part of a sentence without any of the other context to change what someone said so you can defend a strawman issue they weren't bringing up?

No kidding I can play without 2 ABs. No one needs to buy anything ever. Go live in the woods and forage for your food. But to play the list I want to play with ships I already own, I need to spend and extra $20 for a ship I don't need. Despite FFG expressly saying that the conversion kits would have EVERYTHING included in the 2nd ed expansions to bring their 1st ships up to the what the 2nd ed ships have. And any new players who are not buying into the scum faction who want to use 2 ABs will need to buy a Fang despite FFG saying you will never need to buy out of faction to get an upgrade. And don't give me that "um, well, *snort* technically, you could buy a second core and that is not out of faction so.. " crap. Defending FFG's decision to put a global upgrade in in single faction's ship (and the core) is absurd.

4 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

And don't give me that "um, well, *snort* technically, you could buy a second core and that is not out of faction so.. " crap. Defending FFG's decision to put a global upgrade in in single faction's ship (and the core) is absurd.

My advice is to just let this argument go. Afterburners that is. I've argued the exact same points as you. So have others.

In the end we have to wait and see how FFG is going to handle this. There is still the fabled "card only" packs that might, just might, be made available with wave 2+ stuff. Assuming that Afterburners is made available in wave 2+ for Rebs/Imps.

3 minutes ago, papy72 said:

My advice is to just let this argument go. Afterburners that is. I've argued the exact same points as you. So have others.

In the end we have to wait and see how FFG is going to handle this. There is still the fabled "card only" packs that might, just might, be made available with wave 2+ stuff. Assuming that Afterburners is made available in wave 2+ for Rebs/Imps.

Fair enough. Just frustrated. Not that FFG isn't fixing the way AB is distributed. I mean FFG certainly isn't going to change it at this point. But at all the people defending it with 'you don't NEED to buy a fang... '

5 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Another idiot telling me to save $20 on the Fang by buying a $40 core. Man, the car dealerships must LOVE you. I am not hung up on having afterburners on everything. There are a handful of lists that I feel are improved with 2 of the ships having ABs. I don't care about your opinion on how to build a list. My point, AGAIN, is that FFG said they would not do exactly what they are doing. So stop telling me I get it in the core I KNOW THAT! The point is that in order to get more than 1 as a long time player or as a non-scum player your best option is to buy a scum ship you don't need. 

Or you could wait for the card to be released with a Imp/Rebel ship. That is what FFG has promised.

They never promised that all card would be immediatly available in all pack at the same time.

12 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

Do you have proof of this? It is a pretty bold claim to make on a their own forum. You should contact the police with your evidence. Or is it just easy to take part of a sentence without any of the other context to change what someone said so you can defend a strawman issue they weren't bringing up?

No kidding I can play without 2 ABs. No one needs to buy anything ever. Go live in the woods and forage for your food. But to play the list I want to play with ships I already own, I need to spend and extra $20 for a ship I don't need. Despite FFG expressly saying that the conversion kits would have EVERYTHING included in the 2nd ed expansions to bring their 1st ships up to the what the 2nd ed ships have. And any new players who are not buying into the scum faction who want to use 2 ABs will need to buy a Fang despite FFG saying you will never need to buy out of faction to get an upgrade. And don't give me that "um, well, *snort* technically, you could buy a second core and that is not out of faction so.. " crap. Defending FFG's decision to put a global upgrade in in single faction's ship (and the core) is absurd.

um, well, *snort* technically, I took out an entire sentence (except the irrelevant word "but") and it was a complete thought that represented the crux of your entire issue, which is that you WANT something, and you WANT it on YOUR TERMS, and you WANT it RIGHT NOW, and phrasing those WANTS as FFG forcing you to do something. But you refuse to consider 1) being patient and waiting for it to come with an expansion you DO want to buy, 2) going to a secondary market, 3) spending $20 and selling/trading the components you need... this is really a prison of your own making, not FFG's