25 minutes ago, Phydaux42 said:

Do we know what ships will be part of "wave 1?"

9 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Scum: ...Mining Guild Tie, Solo Falcon

The announcement article for the Mining Guild TIE says it is part of wave 2, not 1.

Another good reason for buying conversion kits is to get upgrade cards from ships you don't/won't normally buy.

This is one perk from the large cash outlay.

A few of our group are just sticking to one or two factions for now and seeing if they would like the third/fourth/fifth factions down the line.

They also play competitively if that helps.

Definitely buying collections is the way to go as individual ship costs drop below 1/2 price. $20 per ship new, 2.0, will be a hit t the wallet in the future especially if you just want the cards. cough starviper cough

??

22 hours ago, SuperMarino said:

I have to disagree to some level. definitely do not buy brand new 1.0 ships, but the second hand market is really in the buyer's favor right now. There are plenty of people getting out of specific factions or the game altogether with the 2.0 jump, so going on eBay or somewhere and finding a lot can be a real bargain. I personally bought an entire faction from someone on eBay and when I take that plus the cost of the conversion kit I needed, it averaged to $6/ship.

22 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

2) Find someone who is selling off all their 1.0 ships on eBay and buy their collection for cheap, then buy the core set and the conversion kit(s) you need to convert everything to 2.0. More expensive up front but cheaper in the long run, plus with the conversion kit you can try out ships you don’t have and decide whether or not you want to buy them. 

*had to take a break for a few minutes in typing this and got ninja’d by several other posts, but I still have a few more comments*

I recommend going the 2nd route. Yeah it can be a bit of an investment, but if there are any ships you decide you don’t want/like/need then you can turn around and sell them and make your money back.

All well and good, but I think both you guys are forgetting that the Conversion Kits aren't the be all and end all of the 2e ships.

All the 1e ships are going to be re-released and when they do it's going to be with 2e content that isn't in the conversion kits.

Yes, FFG have said there will be a way to get the content of those expansions without investing in the full expansion including the model, but we still have absolutely no idea what form that will take or how much it will cost.

I'd be hesitant to recommend someone brand new to the game go down the route of buying up a bunch of ships for a game they may not even know they'll like yet given that there will probably additional content they'd like to buy for those ships down the line.

What if there's no way to buy only the new content from the expansions, for example? What if the card only method is all the cards from the expansion and you end up having to double up on those pilots already in the conversion? Which is extremely likely to be the very least you'd have to buy, if you ask me. What if the card only packs only come for the full wave and cost $20 each?

I really don't think we can say even second hand 1e ships + conversions will ultimately be more economical than selectively buying 2e ships as they release.

10 hours ago, Phydaux42 said:

Do we know what ships will be part of "wave 1?"

At the risk of being a bit too blunt, you're asking a lot of questions here that could very easily be answered by reading through the product pages linked at the bottom of the official X-Wing Second Edition page, as well as reading the wave 1 announcement articles linked on the original Second Edition announcement page.

There's also the Second Edition Wiki that has all the information we currently know about X-Wing 2e, and organises it in several different ways that should make finding these answers readily apparent, including listing out all content and expansions in wave and release order.

Before going in and asking 'what's competitive' I'd go through all of those and have a thorough read about what content currently makes up second edition and when it will be releasing (next week get HYPE!)

Hooray, double post.

@GuacCousteau

Can't argue with most of what you said, especially when further post from the OP make it seem as if he doesn't know anything about the game. For someone who knows they want to invest in the game, and have played the odd 1.0 game here and there and are ready to make the leap with 2.0, buying the old stuff cheap is a very viable option. Of course, if you are the kind of player that will figure out his exact fleet and buy only the required ships, buying a bulk lot is usually more expensive, even if the cost per ship is much cheaper. Personally, I view it as it gives you an asset to resell, and bundling the 2.0 conversion stuff with it would increase the price you can demand if you decide to sell off what you won't use.

As for the additional stuff from wave 2 and on, we are all in the dark, but I have to believe that it is going to be more cost effective still. If it is $5/ship to get one of everything new not included in the conversion packs, I'd be happy - even if I had to buy it in wave packs that cost whatever the number of new ships x $5. If it's more like $10/ship, that would be depressing and I would break even as if I were to buy a new ship that retails for $20. Of course, I'm not selective, and like to field lots of ships and try things, and have stuff or friends to use, so an oversupply isn't a big deal as long as I'm not throwing too much money away. I am a bit concerned that they might price these high since there has always been a healthy second hand market for upgrade cards, but I'm hoping FFG doesn't care if they drive that market down by making upgrade cards easier/cheaper to acquire - I mean, that does seem to go along with how they are limited the superfluous purchases one should have to make to get the cards they would need.

true, there will be new cards in the 2.0 expansions that are not in the conversion kits.

But, most of the upgrades will be. This is the true value of the kits.

Besides, if FFG can't/doesn't update an expansion with "new" 2.0 stuff, they can always just use cards/pilots from the kits and still get the ships to market fast.

This will be the "catch" as new cards need play testing to avoid power creep and the kit cards have already gone through the testing.

So, if FFG is serious about re-releasing 1.0 ships in a fast time line/schedule, they will draw heavily on the kit content.

I imagine the New content will be grouped together in a small deck. It will be available after the expansion release but if you are waiting for ships anyway, a few cards isn't much more of a wait. Add the app will have these cards available and for casual play it will be fine.

Conversion kits are the way to go if you already have a collection of ships or buy one soon. The price increase and unknown time frame of the re-releases supports this.

If you are new to the game, new core and expansions might be the better route. You will get to know ships and their abilities better and this will ultimately help your play in the long run.

13 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Though I must admit my experience is a tad skewed by the local gents having fallen head over ****** heels with Howlrunner miniswarm. Those buggers will rip anyone apart in one/two rounds, and stuff like boost or decloaking has been INVALUABLE to avoiding them. Poor Ys and such just get diced to ribbons in a round or two

The Y is more affordable than ever. Even with just protons (torps + bombs) you're looking at a very sizable threat that clocks in at just 46 points and has the potential to reload indefinitely. Definitely makes the front arc a threat (as long as you're good with range control) and AoE damage from the back would give swarms a very bad day. Now I know this would get chopped to pieces by a swarm but that's exactly what you want in this case. 46 points is well under a quarter of your list, and it would take the full howl swarm to burn it down in a turn, while your stacked aces can go around and do whatever they want. If they don't, then its torps shoot the TIEs out of the sky, or its bombs deliver some nasty crits. I see it as win-win.

Named Ys are definitely a bit of a stretch against swarms (Norra Excepted; she's a beastly tank if you can keep her at R1, which EH +I5 help a ton with), but generics make a very good toolbox that can deal with almost any threat for very cheap. Keep in mind that the Grey Squadron Bomber is just 4 points more expensive than the widely lauded Scimitar Squadron Pilot, and though it doesn't have access to agile bomber or barrage rockets, it still has the reload, device slot, and torps which most non-Jonus bomber lists are built around, and it has access to astromechs (a serious game-changer for regen or multiple locks), turrets (for control or extra damage, though I usually find it a point-sink and skip it; I like Ys as bombers), and shields.

TL;DR: The Y is a very cheap distraction piece. Deal with it and remove only 23% of the list, or leave it alone and take a facefull of torps and bombs?

buying into this system without knowing too much about it is very dangerous and costly.

I recommend at least a dozen plays with other peoples stuff first and foremost.

There is a lot of complexity in ship/upgrade building (also a lot of fun) process. The app should make this easier for new players.

Once you know you like it, definitely collections are the way to go along with kits.

I feel that once 2.0 is available, collections will get smaller. Sellers can divide ships up and make more money by selling by faction/ship type/size...

Not to mention bundling certain ships with 2.0 components to sell their ships faster.

@GuacCousteau I stand by what I said. Buying a used collection and the conversion kit(s) and the upgrade packs is going to be cheaper than buying new. A new player at my FLGS last week just bought a collection off of eBay of 29 ships for $160. That’s about $5.50 per ship, and several of them were large/ medium based ships. Add in 2 conversion kits (empire and rebel) and he’s just under $9 a ship. So those future upgrade packs would have to run more than $10/ship for him to have lost money. And believe me, if FFG tries to charge more than $10 for a half dozen cards and a couple cardboard chits then there will be outrage like you’ve never seen. (EDIT: and even then, he’d still be better off buying used because of the higher costs of medium and large ships)

Also, you’re ignoring the fact that with a conversion kit, even if the player doesn’t have a particular ship model, he can still try out that ship just using the contents of the kit and decide if he wants to buy it or not, or even just use the components without the model for casual play. The van literally play with any ship from the respective faction, right out of the gate. That’s a huge boon to anyone trying out the game.

Lastly, Like @SuperMarino said, any ships you decide you don’t like it don’t want you can turn around and sell and make most if not all of your money back on that ship. You can’t do that with a new pack.

10 minutes ago, robert t said:

buying into this system without knowing too much about it is very dangerous and costly.

I recommend at least a dozen plays with other peoples stuff first and foremost.

I see your point but I disagree about the dangerous part. Yes it can be costly, but most or all of that cost can be recovered if you decide to turn around and sell the ships you just bought. A used ship is going to cost about the same in a month as it does right now, and throwing in the conversion kit contents will only make the collection more attractive to buyers. You can probably even turn a small profit if you’re willing to break things up and sell them individually.

Also I don’t feel that playing a dozen games with other people’s stuff is necessary. Sure it can be helpful for people who are on the fence, but once you’ve tried a game or two and you decide you like the game, there’s no need to hold back purchasing anything if you don’t want to.

There's a risk of disliking TIEs (**** awful green dice ?)

But it's very difficult to dislike Xwings simply because they offer a LOT of variety via servos and pilot options

And they're flipping xwings

well, OK, maybe not a dozen, but definitely a few.

bad dice can sour anyone to a game.

I've had a few where the dice were horrible and I died without inflicting so much as a crit on even one ship.

that and flying as many different ships as possible help give you a sense of the game as a whole.

I started that way and picked up a few small collections once I knew I would play the game enough.

Dangerous as in you can sink a lot of money into the series. I doubt you could recoup your costs if you didn't like it. Prices of collections right now bear this out.

13 hours ago, Managarmr said:

They [TIE strikers] are fun, but if you are an absolute beginner they might have a bit steep learning curve, with their premove-boost it is easy to mistakenly crash into obstacles or fly off the board by accident.

Yeah, but you'll sure learn quickly about how much room to leave yourself for next round's Adaptive Ailerons move. Yeah, there will be a learning curve, but it's SO FUN to plan out your maneuvers!

My current recommendation for purchasing TIE strikers goes something like this: buy as many as you think you want to fly...then buy one more!

29 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

And they're flipping xwings

Yeah, I like that the X wing cards flip. It's a neat mechanic. And they do barrel rolls natively now! So flipping in every sense ?

10 minutes ago, robert t said:

I doubt you could recoup your costs if you didn't like it. Prices of collections right now bear this out.

Not if you buy new. If you buy used though... a used ship now is going to carry roughly the same value as a used ship in a month or two. You should be able to sell everything for about the same price you paid for it, minus shipping and eBay fees.

agreed, I was thinking about a new player buying into 2.0 right now and purchasing only 2.0 ships.

Resale of new will be less than retail.

agree about the used ship market, it won't go down.

I imagine certain 1.0 ships will go up once 2.0 is shipped. certain ships are not available right now and will demand higher prices once people start building new to them lists.

I was looking for a second alpha class star fighter for a while as there were none left in stores. I was just filling gaps in my collection which might make great builds with the kits.

I'm a new player. Well, I played 1.0 for about 6 months about 18 months ago. The option I'm going down is not buying any 1.0 items and slowly expanding my collection. This is for a few reasons:

1. I want the new models
2. I don't care if its more expensive
3. I don't want to be overwhelmed with options from Day 1
4. I want to get excited with every re-release that gives me new toys to play with
   1. This also ensures I use some cards which might not be used otherwise as they might be sub-optimal for competitive play

Just my approach. Everyone has their own view on this of course!

an excellent approach for a new player.

the best route to learning the game and ships subtleties.

played a game of 2.0 last night with our group. One guy had bought a few things at Gencon.

Great fun with a lot of emphasis on manoeuvring.

Medium bases are tricky to judge their distances.

looking forward to next week

Honestly, with the conversion kits having everything you need for ships... EBAY is your friend. Look for lots of people getting out of the hobby and you can get several ships for cheaper than msrp

I’ve got my shopping list down to:

2 Starters

1 X Wing

2 TIE Fighters

1 TIE Advanced

1 Y Wing

That should give me a lot of options and weigh in right around $200.

If you get all 2.0 products for the ships, you'll be good to go. Mind the boxing, they are card stock and black, not the clear clamshell style. Those are 1.0. Welcome to the hobby.

Bored comutting, making Xwing lists to demonstrate variety. I got two good extemes here:

joust: (ie "fly at the enemy and throw dice, kturn and do it again until someone dies). List flies in a clumps around Biggs because of his ability

Biggs forces opponent to spread damage or target an unimportant ship

A Selfless Red Veteran further forces opponent to inefficiently split damage amongst your squad

Elusive Garven provides additional dice modifiers by passing his focus

Elusive Wedge is just a badass

Generally flies like a brick around Biggs but don't forget the manueverability Servomotor provide!

zoom, zoom! xwings can also be very fast and mobile!

Kullbee's ability essentially lets him avoid the detriment of closed Servomotors, so he's basically the best boosting Xwing

Predator is the upgrade of choice, as bullseye is much easier to land when you can boost

Wedge is affected less by Servomotors than most, thanks to his ability lower ling opponent's defense. Also, you can get better than initiative 6. Predator for him too

Thane's offense suffers under closed Servomotors, but if his ability works then it doesn't matter

Garven's ability reachs all the way out to range 3 (which is huge) and Servomotors give you access to linked focus actions

On 9/4/2018 at 2:58 AM, Phydaux42 said:

I'm a new player and will be buying the 2.0 set when it drops. My question is what do I need to stock up on now in order to be competitive when 2.0 drops? Any particular ships? Do we even know what ships will be in the 2.0 box? Same old ships or all new ships?

For starters pick Core Set and Conversion Kit of faction you would like to collect. Then look around for ships from 1st edition that you will use with picked Conversion Kit.
I played about 20-30 games in 2nd edition in the last 2 weeks.
In my opinion, based on the games that I played, these are the most valuable ships in Imperial and Rebel faction:

Rebels:
X-Wing (Wedge and Luke are great Aces)
Y-Wing (Dutch Vander provides great action economy in the form of free TL)
Z-95 (Airen Cracken with Swarm Leader is great combo with Dutch Vander)

Empire:
TIE Defender (Rexler Brath with Juke is living nightmare for your opponents)
TIE Phantom (best arc-dodger at the moment in my opinion, field him with Juke only or additionaly with Vader crewman for best effect)
TIE Punisher (Redline got great action economy, basic pilot is cheap and effective ship)
TIE Bomber (flexible imperial ship, equivalent of F-16 in real world, you can build a lot of types of lists with them, using every available pilots, probably the most cost-effective ship in Imperial arsenal at the moment)

21 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

joust: (ie "fly at the enemy and throw dice, kturn and do it again until someone dies)

What is a K Turn?

45 minutes ago, Phydaux42 said:

What is a K Turn?

Reading the rulebook is your friend.

A K-turn (short for Koiogran turn) is a straight maneuver, but you flip your ship 180 degrees, so you’re facing back the way you came.

So it's an Immalmann? Gotcha.