1. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-1-guns-n.html
   
2. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-2-pancake.html
   
3. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-3-aces-of.html
   
4. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-4-ac-d3.html
   
5. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-5-kkkk.html
   
6. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-6-rho-rho-rho.html
   
7. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-7-junkyard.html
   
8. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-8-rebel.html
   
9. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-9-close.html
   
10. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-10-scum.html

It's the final countdooooooown! Just ten more sleeps until Second Edition is here and I'm going to mark that countdown by blogging a new 2nd Edition squad very day.

Ten squads in ten days, ten squads to rule them all and in the darkness something something dark side...

That list makes me want to buy a second Punisher.

I see why you are unsure about the Whisper build, it doesn't seem to fit the list - but I also see why it works - it's the endgame ship. It doesn't need to fit the list. Juke would probably make it easier to keep Whisper gainfully engaged though

5 minutes ago, Shoulder of Orion said:

I see why you are unsure about the Whisper build, it doesn't seem to fit the list - but I also see why it works - it's the endgame ship. It doesn't need to fit the list. Juke would probably make it easier to keep Whisper gainfully engaged though

Yep, and I think that's where I'm heading with it. I'm going to see if I can adjust the flying to use LW/Vader and keep it engaged but the Juke/Kallus version is coming.

Big fan of this list, been messing about with 2 Punishers or 2 Phantoms, plus a third ship, a bunch at home. Several variations of the 2 frames in combo as well, though Vader or Rexlar occasionally step in to spice up the party.

I think you're spot on with the 1 bomb throwing Punisher not being enough, it's felt like the weakest combo of the 2 + 1 lists I've tried.

I did try Jonus as the 3rd ship with Redline and Deathrain in our last trial. My boy annihilated me with Vader, Echo and Whisper though. Lots of fruitless bomb dropping/launching with those 3 so hard to pin down. Main amusement for me was taking obstacles off the board left, right and centre

I think swarms would prove a bit nightmarish for that Phantoms plus Vader list though, so Guns and Ammo 2.0 is definitely seeming like it's a good combination of all these nice things. It's an interesting, and quite frightening, Whisper you've got going on there.

Defensive flying is definitely the weak spot of bombs now and you really feel the information you're giving away by dropping them in the systems phase. It takes a different approach to killing the aces, boxing off bits of table with bombs to try and funnel them into a killbox but it's very tough (hence why I'm going to return to the idea of bombing with a different squad in a few days time).

I played against Boba/Fenn/Zealout and my opponent flew super-defensively and just waited for the Punishers to punch themselves out of ammo. All three of his ships were wounded but none were finished off and that's the problem I'm hoping that more practice (and a more aggressive use of Whisper) can solve for the squad.

Keep ‘em coming, SOTL!

Second squad is up - let's get to the Falcon and blast our way out of here!

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-2-pancake.html

Interesting take on a 2 fat ship list. I assume you're just being hyperbolic with your assessment of Bistan though? He's very good, but you're not really adding 100% extra efficiency with him because the number of red dice you throw isn't the only thing that matters - quality matters too and Bistan reduces the quality of your mods and your ability to concentrate fire. I think he's good, and well worth it in this squad but he's not the efficiency monster you make him out to be here.

One of the things I'm going to be interested in seeing in 2nd edition is just how quickly ships take damage. Previously, the Falcon was a nightmare to deal with thanks to high-PS Boost, 3P0, Evade title, etc. If they die much quicker now the value of the upgrades on them goes down because they're on the table for less time.

That focus requirement on Bistan just kills him, for me, given his cost.

Unless you can also squeeze Perceptive Copilot in, you're sacrificing mods on the first shot to allow you to take a second, and it has to be at a different target so it's not like you can write the first shot off as a token stripper. I can see him working on Han, where you've at least got a controllable chance at re-rolls on both shots while still having your action to focus. But on Lando it just feels like the first shot is always going to be a massive hail mary. Feels like the target you Bistan on should be your 'primary' target, and whatever ship you shoot first is just a bonus dice roll.

I guess with that mentality, the focus requirement isn't so bad. Still going to be interesting to see how effective it actually is on the table.

Force crew just for the Force token to spend would be nice, just a shame they're all so (justifiably) expensive.

It's slightly hyperbolic, but I think the point still stands that you've got to do everything you can to push red dice out of these turrets. That's especially true as there's no Gunner now to double tap stuff that just turtles the first attack. Without Bistan I look at a TIE Swarm and just think... I've spent 130pts and I'm dealing 0.4 (number made up but won't be far off) damage to Howlrunner every turn with it?

Like, defensively, the fat Han at the botttom of the article is really appealing to me - just the arc-dodging possibilities of being able to do anything from a hard 0 stop to a 3 turn and boost, how can the opponent cover all the bases? And if they do catch you, you've got Evade token, and force points, and rerolls, and regen... and yet you still deal 0.4 damage to Howlrunner every turn and just achieve nothing.

On 9/3/2018 at 2:41 AM, SOTL said:

1. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-1-guns-n.html
   
2. http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-2-pancake.html

It's the final countdooooooown! Just ten more sleeps until Second Edition is here and I'm going to mark that countdown by blogging a new 2nd Edition squad very day.

Ten squads in ten days, ten squads to rule them all and in the darkness something something dark side...

Brilliant!! Thank you

3 hours ago, SOTL said:

It's slightly hyperbolic, but I think the point still stands that you've got to do everything you can to push red dice out of these turrets. That's especially true as there's no Gunner now to double tap stuff that just turtles the first attack. Without Bistan I look at a TIE Swarm and just think... I've spent 130pts and I'm dealing 0.4 (number made up but won't be far off) damage to Howlrunner every turn with it?

Like, defensively, the fat Han at the botttom of the article is really appealing to me - just the arc-dodging possibilities of being able to do anything from a hard 0 stop to a 3 turn and boost, how can the opponent cover all the bases? And if they do catch you, you've got Evade token, and force points, and rerolls, and regen... and yet you still deal 0.4 damage to Howlrunner every turn and just achieve nothing.

And this is my greatest "fear" about tournaments in 2.0. Swarms take frakking forever to move around the table. And TIE swarms now have shenanigans out their ears to keep them alive.... And even with half points on small bases being a thing.... Are you ever going to be able to do enough damage to a TIE swarm in the five or six turns you're allowed play against a swarm in a 75 minute round to actually win a game? THAT seems to be the challenge, let alone running into someone who can competently fly a swarm and just plain deletes you. I mean, yes, most of us don't have any experience yet so feeling this kind of "fear" is difficult to justify, but videos are out there, of people who are pretty decent players, and this already looks like an issue.

Oh yeah. I'm enjoying these articles. Keep them coming!

It's something the TIE players need to address. Having played a TIE Swarm it requires quick play to get through games and that takes practice to get used to how your swarm needs to respond.

I got to the point where I was pretty quick before engagement, pretty quick in endgame, but there was usually at least one turn when it all turns into a massive furball where I was apologising to my opponent for taking time to set dials. When the TIEs are flying formation it's quick as one TIE sets what everyone is doing (not they all do the same move, but you know if TIE 1 does X then TIE 2 has to do X as well and TIEs 3 & 4 need to do Y), then as soon as TIEs start dying it speeds up again. It's the midgame where it can be slow going.

It's going to be really painful for a while as new players take on flying the swarm but that shouldn't be representative of how it'll be after a couple of months. Either they'll be too slow and stop playing TIEs, or they'll learn to speed up.

Day three and time for some ace pilots at Initiative 6...

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-3-aces-of.html

20 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

And this is my greatest "fear" about tournaments in 2.0. Swarms take frakking forever to move around the table. And TIE swarms now have shenanigans out their ears to keep them alive.... And even with half points on small bases being a thing.... Are you ever going to be able to do enough damage to a TIE swarm in the five or six turns you're allowed play against a swarm in a 75 minute round to actually win a game? THAT seems to be the challenge, let alone running into someone who can competently fly a swarm and just plain deletes you. I mean, yes, most of us don't have any experience yet so feeling this kind of "fear" is difficult to justify, but videos are out there, of people who are pretty decent players, and this already looks like an issue.

Oh yeah. I'm enjoying these articles. Keep them coming!

Or alternatively, take four cutlass squadron pilots with bomblet generators and trajectory simulators. It's not subtle, and it may struggle against other squads, but you really don't have to worry about a big TIE fighter swarm ever again.

9 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Or alternatively, take four cutlass squadron pilots with bomblet generators and trajectory simulators. It's not subtle, and it may struggle against other squads, but you really don't have to worry about a big TIE fighter swarm ever again.

2x Cutlass, 3x Academy, Howlrunner. The anti-swarm swarm.

24 minutes ago, SOTL said:

2x Cutlass, 3x Academy, Howlrunner. The anti-swarm swarm.

I know the argument for saving those three points for elusive on Howlrunner but in that situation I think I'd really, really feel tempted to up the academy pilots to obsidian squadron pilots. Firstly so Howlrunner is leading a flight of her own squadron, but also so the TIE/ln and TIE/ca have the same initiative and I can chop and change movement order. I really, really, hate fixed movement orders in swarms, and I imagine throwing two medium bases in there isn't exactly going to help.

One build that looks interesting for Han is

Han Solo, Trick Shot, Jyn Erso, Perceptive Copilot, Bistan, Millennium Falcon

Take one focus and one evade if you have incoming fire, two focus if you won't or two shots is more important. 125 points.

Yeah, I can see that being a decent play.

1 minute ago, Shoulder of Orion said:

One build that looks interesting for Han is

Han Solo, Trick Shot, Jyn Erso, Perceptive Copilot, Bistan, Millennium Falcon

Take one focus and one evade if you have incoming fire, two focus if you won't or two shots is more important. 125 points.

That seems ok, but you're giving up on the maneuvering of Boost a lot with that build... or at least if you do ever Boost everything else in your build turns off. You probably burn down a lot faster even though you're getting an Evade token, just because you're sitting in all the arcs all the time.

3 hours ago, SOTL said:

Day three and time for some ace pilots at Initiative 6...

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2018/09/ten-squads-in-ten-days-part-3-aces-of.html

I probably don't have anywhere near the amount of experience needed to accurately comment on this, but I'm still a little puzzled by all the arguments about needing massive First Player bids.

The approach seems to be 'take a decent sized bid from 1e and double it to match the new point limit'. But that doesn't make sense to me. 2e's point environment isn't just 1e's, but doubled. The rule for first player hasn't changed to require whoever has the smaller list by 2 points to get to pick.

All you need to decide first player over your opponent is to have a list that comes to 1 fewer point than your opponent. The 2e point environment has plenty of 1, 3, 5 etc point upgrades that simply don't fit into 1e's point environment.

Taking Predator on Fel in this list, for example, still leaves you with 5 points of granularity to play with. If I'm looking at a TorpWedge/SuperLuke/MoldyKyle list, where first player is probably going to be super important, I'm already looking at 199 points with all the essentials plus R4 astros on the X-Wings. That extra point could be Trick or Crack Shot on Wedge, or R3 on Wedge. Without any astros or a talent on Wedge, I'm looking at 195 points. But depending on upgrades, I could land on a list total on any one of the values between 195 and 200.

The point I'm trying to make is there's basically as much room for tweaking a list in those 5 points as there was with 5 points in 1e.

I don't think the gaps in point totals between lists are going to necessarily be double what they were in 2e. A difference of a single 1e point is still going to make all the difference.

IMO, that means a 4 or 5 point bid is still 'a big bid' for 2e, just on the basis of all the potential upgrades or list tweaks you're leaving out.

The other thing that is ultimately going to be relevant is how often will I6 vs I6 first player contests actually matter? How many I6 lists are likely to be out there given the mad efficiency of much lower Init TIE Bombers? How likely is the counter to I5 Whisper going to be an anaemic list of other I5s to get the bid, when an I6 will do the job with more guarantee?

What are the other I6 lists out there that make this massive bid so important?

Just want to make it clear these are all honest questions, by the way. I do understand that the advantage Fel gains through Predator probably isn't worth as much as absolutely guaranteeing you get to move last. My question is more where this assumption that the list clocking in at 195 instead of 193 won't be good enough comes from. Just seems like, with the list variety we're seeing and the prominence of lower Inits, Fel gains a significant advantage shooting at I2 Scimitar Bombers with Predator and against a list fielding such ships, the bid won't make a difference anyway.

Is slightly gimping your list against 3 of the 4 lists you might face in a day worth helping you out in the one where I6 vs I6 matters?

4 minutes ago, SOTL said:

That seems ok, but you're giving up on the maneuvering of Boost a lot with that build... or at least if you do ever Boost everything else in your build turns off. You probably burn down a lot faster even though you're getting an Evade token, just because you're sitting in all the arcs all the time.

Yeah you can't K either. But that's a problem with most Han builds I've seen - no action economy. You need something like Jake to pass a focus action if you want to focus then boost a Falcon, which is one option as support.

6 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

My question is more where this assumption that the list clocking in at 195 instead of 193 won't be good enough comes from.

Right now all the I5 and I6 players are like a group of cars on the start line of a race, all revving their engines and watching each other to try and ensure they get the best start... only they're not edging forwards to be first, they're trying to head backwards. I've already seen squads at 190, though I think they're outliers. I'm genuinely not sure if 193 is low enough.

What's changed since 1st Ed is that the bid has become more important:

1) the compressed 1-12 range into 1-6 means it's more likely that you're going to share initiative with an opponent and the bid will matter

2) nearly all ships have a reposition action in 2nd Ed so there's bigger advantages to moving after your opponent, either in repositioning yourself or not having them reposition on you

3) upgrades are weaker so they're more disposable to create a bid

10 minutes ago, SOTL said:

1) the compressed 1-12 range into 1-6 means it's more likely that you're going to share initiative with an opponent and the bid will matter

2) nearly all ships have a reposition action in 2nd Ed so there's bigger advantages to moving after your opponent, either in repositioning yourself or not having them reposition on you

3) upgrades are weaker so they're more disposable to create a bid

2 and 3 make perfect sense, but 1 doesn't seem to affect I6 aces as there's still (roughly) the same number of them as in 1e. I.e, not very many.

I can see the importance of a relatively big bid for the crowded I4 and I5 pilots, but it seems to me that if you've already paid the points for I6, you may as well try and maximise it.

Again, the sticking point for me is that scenario where Fel and Vader already boss the table for most of the lists you're likely to face. If 2 points make 3/4s of your games slightly easier with no drawback, what is that worth vs the 1/4 of games where not having those 2 point might make a difference?

Is not losing one game better than an increased edge in several games which you're maybe capable of winning anyway? Again, genuine question.

Also, on point 2, yes more ships have reposition available but way fewer have access to multiple actions. That means way fewer have access to double repositon, unless you take an 8 point (bid ruining?) Afterburners. Way fewer ships have access to one reposition and then an offensive boost like focus or target lock, which means you're more likely to trade offensive ability for position - yes, you've dodged the arc but now that your dice whiff on the attack all you've achieved is dragging the match out another turn. I'm also super curious to see how actions now being able to be failed will turn out. Again, this is very limited experience talking but I did notice that people leaned heavily into their options in first edition. If there was the slightest chance Fel could dodge that arc with a barrel roll near a rock, people would try it knowing if it didn't work, they could just evade anyway. Will people shy away from the potential arc dodge now just because the consequences of judging wrong are so much worse?

14 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Right now all the I5 and I6 players are like a group of cars on the start line of a race, all revving their engines and watching each other to try and ensure they get the best start... only they're not edging forwards to be first, they're trying to head backwards. I've already seen squads at 190, though I think they're outliers. I'm genuinely not sure if 193 is low enough.

I mean, all that's fair enough but it also seems like a self-created problem to me.

Someone blinked first and said "I'm going to keep my ace lists really low in points to guarantee I move last" and now everyone is reacting to that spoken threat rather than an actual reality.

Just seems like the value of what makes a reasonable bid has been pre-emptively and artificially decided.

I suppose it's based on the base costs of the pilots or default builds (I don't see anyone changing the Supernatual/FCS/Afterburners formula on Vader any time soon) that are likely to make a good list together? With your example list there, I can definitely see the logic behind "I want to fly Soontir and Vader, what other ships can I fit in that will help the list just by being there?" And yeah, Vizier looks like a great shout. You then say, will any upgrades on this baseline actually improve the list as a whole in a meaningful way. And I can totally see the argument that Fel and Vizier don't need anything to help them do their jobs.

But what if that list gets absolutely dominated by a Barrage Bomber or Howlferno swarm because there's simply too many arcs to dodge and you don't have the dice mods to kill them fast enough? When they don't care about Initiative so they've got the absolute maximum from their list buy going all the way up to 200? Losing three games can't be worth winning the one mirror match, surely?

All fair challenges, and until we get to the heat of competition we won't know the answer.