1 hour ago, eMeM said:

So how do you think it happened, they just kinda forgot to add those and purely by chance every single kit contains exclusive upgrades from another faction? Or is it another example of the forum favourite Premium American Deluxe Printed Cardboard RTX where the cost of material is so high the poor FFG just can't afford to add four more cards to each kit?

The lack of certain upgrade cards from some of the kits sucks, nobody is arguing that, but it’s a huge leap to go from that to some grand conspiracy about them trying to con competitive players into buying ships they don’t want. FFG said they are going for more release parity in second edition, a thing that they have never done for first edition. They game isn’t even out yet and you’re already calling them liars. Come back in a year and complain if they end up dropping the ball, but you’re a bit premature right now.

4 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

The lack of certain upgrade cards from some of the kits sucks, nobody is arguing that, but it’s a huge leap to go from that to some grand conspiracy about them trying to con competitive players into buying ships they don’t want. FFG said they are going for more release parity in second edition, a thing that they have never done for first edition. They game isn’t even out yet and you’re already calling them liars. Come back in a year and complain if they end up dropping the ball, but you’re a bit premature right now.

Each conversion kit contains 100+ upgrades. It's difficult to argue that including 2-3 more was any kind of logistical or technical issue.

As such, these cards were left out intentionally. What other reason could FFG have than encouraging people to buy other packs in order to obtain these cards?

Yeah, as much as I am completely in for second edition, the omission of certain cards is pretty annoying and not really consumer friendly imo

It personally affects me less because my community is fine with proxying (and every community interested in growing should be, only exception being ffg sanctioned events) but there isn't much justification for not having moldy crow in the scum kit

Gives me a good excuse to draw up an alt art, though

56 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Each conversion kit contains 100+ upgrades. It's difficult to argue that including 2-3 more was any kind of logistical or technical issue.

As such, these cards were left out intentionally. What other reason could FFG have than encouraging people to buy other packs in order to obtain these cards?

Bean counters told the designers how many cards they had to work with and they did their best with what they had.

Its also looking like the project has been pushed out a bit ahead of schedule, so not being perfect is hardly a surprise.

Never attribute to malice what could equally be attributed to incompetence.

5 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Never attribute to malice what could equally be attributed to incompetence.

This. So much this.

16 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Bean counters told the designers how many cards they had to work with and they did their best with what they had.

Its also looking like the project has been pushed out a bit ahead of schedule, so not being perfect is hardly a surprise.

Never attribute to malice what could equally be attributed to incompetence.

Let's assume you're right:

- Designers do their best into a given number of cards and decide to leave out some cards instead of reducing number of duplicates

- Designers know at least some of these cards are really powerful (Moldy Crow, BT-1, 0-0-0, I can buy they missed Composure)

-Designers state publicly that you won't have to buy other factions to get all cards, with full knowledge that this will be false at launch, as several good cards are missing from all conversion kits

-Designers somehow think this is fine and will totally not look like a cash grab

To me, that's a pretty big amount of incompetence in a single place

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Gives me a good excuse to draw up an alt art, though

Didn’t know you were an artist Fickle, any good?

2 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Its also looking like the project has been pushed out a bit ahead of schedule, so not being perfect is hardly a surprise.

This Is probably the answer. We know there are several brackets of card design / production:

1. Core Rules

2. Saw's cards

3. conversions (-some of wave 1)

4. Wave 1 (At least X-wing)

5. Lando's falcon.

Based on this, it is very possible that composure and Agile Gunner were designed after conversion kits had left production, so not including them isn't malicious.

19 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Didn’t know you were an artist Fickle, any good?

I am as good as art as I am at green dice

6 hours ago, eMeM said:

So how do you think it happened, they just kinda forgot to add those and purely by chance every single kit contains exclusive upgrades from another faction? Or is it another example of the forum favourite Premium American Deluxe Printed Cardboard RTX where the cost of material is so high the poor FFG just can't afford to add four more cards to each kit?

But...that’s not proof.

15 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

This Is probably the answer. We know there are several brackets of card design / production:

1. Core Rules

2. Saw's cards

3. conversions (-some of wave 1)

4. Wave 1 (At least X-wing)

5. Lando's falcon.

Based on this, it is very possible that composure and Agile Gunner were designed after conversion kits had left production, so not including them isn't malicious.

Exactly. The same way the extra Wave 1 pilots were clearly added to the already-finished Conversion kits in separate baggies, and not listed anywhere on the printed contents list in the box.

Look, OF COURSE they were left out delibately. OF COURSE they want you to buy packs you otherwise wouldn't. A Leopard doesn't change its spots.

But it seems like it's going to happen less often in 2nd Edition than 1st Edition. But it's going to happen. So are you going to quit X-Wing over it or are you going to shut up and get with the programme? Those are your two choices.

On 8/31/2018 at 2:23 PM, JasonCole said:

You could also make a friend, or go to the secondary market. I'm considering buying one extra of each expansion just to sell off individual cards and dials for $1-2 each.

Make friends? What is this, my little pony! THIS IS STAR WARS...keyword here is WAR! RAWRRRRRRR

What a conspiracy. Next I suppose they will release a core set with ships and cards that five factions don't need and can't use.

I didn't realize that a widely known and implemented gaming industry sales practices counted as a "conspiracy". Especially when it fits their old sales model pretty much exactly, and the only evidence we have to the contrary is the promise of a professional salesman. Guess what, they conspire about what products they are going to release ahead of time too. They also conspire to make more money than they spend. Scary, I know, all the conspiracies around us every day.

I can understand getting tired of the whining. Don't let the frustration make you willing to rationalize away your objectivity. Yes, I am sure that every single example we have seen is an accident. Sure, one or two might be. Actually believing that all of them are seems like too much of a stretch to me, and not by a little bit either. You hear hoof beats, you think horses, not zebras right? Oh, a bunch of powerful cards seem to have been omitted from factions that might want them? Must have all been a big mistake and certainly not evidence of recurring and extensively exhibited previous behavior.

Looking at the current core set, conversions, expansions and cards offered in each, I do not believe that they want to actually eliminate the need to buy into all factions. I do not have to wait for another wave to judge their intentions going forward. This is more than enough evidence now if we simply accept it. There will be excuses about rushed mistakes, the order of the design process, and whatever you might actually still believe...every single time. They will not make the cards available to all factions quickly enough and could very easily do so. They know very well that abusing the timing of when cards are released for each faction will drive sales of the less popular factions. They know exactly what they are doing and I would expect nothing less, because they are trying to make as much money as they can on the game.

It sucks that they advertise an admittedly idealistic goal with no intent to make good. It's not unexpected in any way, but it's still disappointing if, like me, you were ever stupid enough to take them at their word in the first place. Like others have said, they have tried to do it with Legion right? Do they actually come out for each faction at the same time there? Releasing a card for the first time in any Imperial Expansion two years down the line just does not seem like even a good faith effort to change in any meaningful way. It's arguing semantics while obviously abandoning the spirit of the idea, and it shouldn't work on objective people.

10 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:

it's still disappointing if, like me, you were ever stupid enough to take them at their word in the first place.

It's still annoying if you never took it at face value, as it makes you feel you're taken for a fool.

On 9/3/2018 at 5:17 AM, SOTL said:

So are you going to quit X-Wing over it or are you going to shut up and get with the programme? Those are your two choices.

Good argument. Here is my mirrored rebuttal:

No, you shut up.

?. What a wonderful dialogue is fostered by telling the other side to shut up and quit.

FFG aren’t the only people in this country that would love it if their critics just shut up and quit.